If we vote for Brexit what happens

Moby

mrginge wrote: »

Moby was a fully paid up blairite a few months ago.

Now though he's turned to the dark side and become a true believer of corbynomics.

Hence his total lack of economic literacy.

I'm not a Corbynite.....mainly 'cause I don't rate him personally as a leader. Also I'm a hawk on defence....but on social issues he's ok....just not competent:o

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

Naaah....you are just over exuberantly riding the protesting populist wave against the elites while forgetting to consider the people leading you by the nose are elitists themselves. We are in reactionary times granted.....but that will end; multi culturalism, globalisation and federalisation etc will return. Technology, cheaper travel etc will see to that.....building protectionist walls against it will fail. The only answer is education, an open mind and trans border co-operation. Young people already know this....problem is not enough of them vote to neutralise the white, grey, dry old sticks defending their interests.

Ah the virtuous multi-ethnic youth and the fascist white elderly.

At least you're consistent.

Edit: Oh, and do you know what populism is? Or did you get your definition from the Guardian? Some might say that populism is actually a synonym for the will of the people. Funny that. If the will of the people is to refuse to subscribe to this brand of politics, this identity politics that labels people, identifies victims and persecutes others on their behalf and then celebrates the provocateurs of these actions. I think you're very wrong to believe it's coming back. It's dying, if it's not dead already. Momentum (JC's band of brothers) has momentum in the wrong direction. Labour coming 4th in Sleaford (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38258976) when in 2015 they were 2nd should indicate to you that the general consensus has stood up to this brand of politics now, they've had enough. It represents people who want to control others, when in reality people just want to be left alone.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Naaah....you are just over exuberantly riding the protesting populist wave against the elites while forgetting to consider the people leading you by the nose are elitists themselves.

No. I'm just trying to accept the result of the referendum and work out what the world is going to look like. Something you seem incapable of doing.

ruggedtoast

cogito wrote: »

What enlightened people like you don't get is that for many leave voters it was less to do with the economy and more to do with leaving a corrupt, undemocratic organisation run by an unelected elite determined to impose its world view on its citizens.

I happen to believe that the UK will continue to outperform the sclerotic EU just as it has done for the past few years.

Which is interesting, considering I haven't met a single leave voter with the faintest understanding of how the EU works, or how it might have undemocratically oppressed them, other than by appalling them with the sight of foreigners in their very hometowns and lives.

As far as sclerosis goes, look at the squalid poverty ridden streets of Britain, the litter, the lack of aspiration, the degenerating public services; and then compare them to pretty much anywhere in France or Germany. The Europeans are making a far better turn from decline than the UK is from growth.

Perhaps the Tories aren't quite the champions of the people you believe them to be.

None of this really matters to Leavers though,just as long as they can close their eyes and imagine the UK has turned into some improbable version of Enid Blyton and Biggles Goes Forth with lashings of hot crumpets thrown in, from Lidl.

ruggedtoast

Tromking wrote: »

Throughout history many self proclaimed intellectual elites have had their world view checked by the great unwashed. No doubt there were many like you in 1945 who cried 'look what the thicko's have done' when the irks rejected the status quo of Churchill and instead voted in the finest government our nation has ever seen.
They'll be building statues to the Brexiteers in the future.

Sure they will, using Latvian builders because the Brexit voters can't be bothered to get out of bed for nine quid an hour unless its to sign on.

Btw, I think trying to draw a parallel with Theresa May, Gove and Johnson and the "finest government our nation has ever seen." is a bit of a reach, even for people who really really like Conservative governments.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Why?

Is immigration going to stop entirely? Will we no longer be able to offer jobs to people outside of the country where there is a skills shortage just because we leave the EU?

This is the same claptrap the "liberal" press push to denigrate those who voted to leave. That they want to kick people out, that they want to close the borders, it's simply not true is it. Honestly, it's very simple, it's not true. Wanting to have control over it so we don't fill up Tesco warehouses with unskilled EU citizens when what we actually need are those with skills we don't have in this country is a completely reasonable position to take if you have reason to do so.

From a selfish point of view, the freedom of movement is a benefit to me since I can travel around the EU very easily. I wouldn't mind if it continued because it doesn't affect me, I don't have to compete because of it and my wages are not depressed because of it, I have no negative factors because of the freedom of movement.

But that is NOT to say that there are no people that it does affect and that those people want it to stop so they have less competition. If that is the way they feel, who am I or you to tell them they are wrong? To say they are being xenophobic or racist? We are not them and we do not walk in their shoes, so writing off their opinion because we have not had the same experiences is wrong, as I keep trying to explain.

Read what I said. I was saying what motivated the brexiteers....I know because I come from one of the areas that went strongly brexit. It was immigration, immigration, immigration. These are working class, Labour voting areas that don't give a toss about trade and EU law blah blah. They were worried about immigrants taking their housing, jobs and services. The reality that we have little control over these things in a globalised world was lost on them and the fact that immigrants provided a lot of these services was not considered....they were lied to by populists like Trump and Farage and we'll all reap what we've sown. Conrads idea of a thriving Singapore like free trading utopia is load of clap trap. Its big trading blocs that hold the cards and we are putting our future prospects at huge risk!

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Which is interesting, considering I haven't met a single leave voter with the faintest understanding of how the EU works.

I'll take that challenge.

A hypothetical to expose it's democratic failings for you.

Lets say legislation is proposed (by the commission) to up the minimum wage across the EU to £20 per hour. Because the left-wing dominates the EU parliament it's voted through.

And then let us pretend that it ruins the economies of the EU. The EU parliamentarians have been replaced by centrist or right wing representatives and they now want to repeal it. Can they? If the commission doesn't want to repeal it, it doesn't get repealed simply by the will of the people of the EU.

If the same situation happened in the UK, your directly elected representatives have a say in proposing and repealing legislation. They're not simply a rubber stamp as the EU parliament actually are.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sure they will, using Latvian builders because the Brexit voters can't be bothered to get out of bed for nine quid an hour unless its to sign on.

My word...

Why is it that you say something bad about the Islamic faith and you're being islamophobic but say Brexit voters can't be bothered to get out of bed to sign on isn't considered hate speech?

Bloody "liberalism", which has totally lost touch with the actual meaning of the word, is truly poison. Thankfully the people of the UK and the US are starting to see it for what it is. Long may it continue.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Read what I said. I was saying what motivated the brexiteers....I know because I come from one of the areas that went strongly brexit. It was immigration, immigration, immigration. These are working class, Labour voting areas that don't give a toss about trade and EU law blah blah. They were worried about immigrants taking their housing, jobs and services. The reality that we have little control over these things in a globalised world was lost on them and the fact that immigrants provided a lot of these services was not considered....they were lied to by populists like Trump and Farage and we'll all reap what we've sown. Conrads idea of a thriving Singapore like free trading utopia is load of clap trap. Its big trading blocs that hold the cards and we are putting our future prospects at huge risk!

That is your opinion. We shall see who is right. The great unwashed masses or you - the Liberal Elitist.

By the way, as someone brought up in a working class community - I find your views offensive but if started down that track I would be here all day....

As I say, I find it hard to believe that you are a leftie... you clearly have no love or respect for working class folk.

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'll take that challenge.

A hypothetical to expose it's democratic failings for you.

Lets say legislation is proposed (by the commission) to up the minimum wage across the EU to £20 per hour. Because the left-wing dominates the EU parliament it's voted through.

And then let us pretend that it ruins the economies of the EU. The EU parliamentarians have been replaced by centrist or right wing representatives and they now want to repeal it. Can they? If the commission doesn't want to repeal it, it doesn't get repealed simply by the will of the people of the EU.

If the same situation happened in the UK, your directly elected representatives have a say in proposing and repealing legislation. They're not simply a rubber stamp as the EU parliament actually are.

OMG! A left wing parliament! Of Europeans!

ARM THE NUKES.

While your example paints a putative and extremely improbable course of action by the EC, it fails to highlight anything that has actually happened.

How have you been oppressed, Tricky?

In what way are your worse orf?