Right of access denied

danslenoir

We just completed on a mid-terrace property a couple of weeks ago, which according to the property information form provided by the vendors stated that we had formal right of access through a gate in the fence between our properties across the neighbours' (end terrace) back garden and side to the front of the terrace.

This was right of access was not described or mentioned at all in the title register for the house we purchased but it clearly states in the neighbour's title register from the land registry:


Subject also to a right of way for the owners tenants or occupiers for the time being of the adjoining property Number X, XXX Road [our house] aforesaid and all persons authorised by them at all times and for all purposes on foot only over and along the passage or way to the North side and to the rear of the property hereby conveyed

I took the bins out via this route tonight and the neighbour popped out to introduce herself and to say (in a friendly tone) that there was no right of access, it had never been used (apart from historically as a 'coal run' - which seems weird as there is a gate in the fence between our properties that doesn't look very old), and that they would prefer us not to use it in case of any legal problems as there had previously been some 'issues' with the house on the other side of theirs.

I don't want to cause any problems so soon after moving in, but after reflecting on it feel that we should assert this right to prevent any potential problems on future resale if/when that happens, and because I don't really want to leave bins out of the front of the house or to have to drag them directly through our house every week.

What is the best way of approaching this? I was thinking of printing out a copy of the title register for the neighbour's property along with the property information form the vendor provided, giving them to her, and asking her to take a read over them and get back to us with her thoughts.

Is this reasonable? Is there any advice on how this situation should be handled?

G_M

Invite the neighbour to tea. Make a cake.

Print off a copy of the neighbour's property Title document.

Have a friendly chat about the weather, the neighbour's kids, the nosy lady at number 29, and then discuss the bins.

Apologise for having disturbed him (her?), and explain you understood you had a ROW. Produce the document.

Keep it friendly. Explain you only plan to use it occassionally eg for weekly bins and occassionally bring gardening stuff in.

Are you sure your own Title does not have a similar reference granting you a ROW?

Does the neighbour's Title where this is quoted refer to another document where the original right was granted? Your own property may be referenced in that, but the Land Registry Title for your property not been updated with the reference.

Davesnave

danslenoir wrote: »

Is this reasonable? Is there any advice on how this situation should be handled?

It's perfectly reasonable, and right to give her time to read and reflect, although I'd wager she already knows the score!

People are strange about newcomers doing what they're entitled to do. When I arrived in my current property, which shares a private lane with 15 others, I had the same problem, with a couple of residents asking politely how much I intended to use it!

Eventually, I sent all the residents a copy of the relevant paragraph from my title docs, together with a brief note explaining why. That was the last time the matter was raised.

Wilma33

Were the bins in the back garden when you moved in? If so, the neighbour is clearly just trying it on as they have never liked the bins being taken through their garden and they see this as an opportunity to try and stop it!


Just pop a copy of the documents through their door with a nice note saying you hope this clarifies the situation.

dgtazzman

Oooh, G_M has changed the cake line after the Mr K remarks

As G_M has said, I would just try to keep it friendly and assure the neighbour you will only be using it occasionally for your bins etc., produce the document to back up your right to do so and apologize for any inconvenience it might cause, but make it clear you will not give in.

Wilma33

If you were feeling kind you could ask them if they would rather you put your bins out the night before or in the morning. One might annoy them a lot more than the other.

Davesnave

Wilma33 wrote: »

If you were feeling kind you could ask them if they would rather you put your bins out the night before or in the morning. One might annoy them a lot more than the other.

IMO that would be too kind.

The RoW paragraph says "at all times and for all purposes..." Implying that you might be open to restrict it voluntarily. just to suit the neighbour, slightly undermines the deliberately unambiguous wording.

Of course, once the OP gets to know the neighbour, they might be sensitive to any special needs. e.g. not going through the garden at night if she's of a nervous disposition. This doesn't need any discussion at this stage, however.

Marktheshark

I would ignore them and just put the bin out.
They know the score.
It is only a dispute of you make it one.

PasturesNew

I'd go down the route of getting all the paperwork printed out, then show them .... and let them take it away. Preferably timed on a bin night .... then take the bin out 15 minutes after they've left your house.

moneyistooshorttomention

I'd tend to go down the GM route - ie that coffee and cake - to start with.

In the course of it - I'd explain that I did know my property has the legal right to access. However, being someone else's garden - then I would be "reasonable" in my attitude about what times I used it. I know I would feel rather nervous if someone just popped up in my garden at night or if I was out sunbathing quietly in it.

I'll admit I would be curious to find out what price the neighbour paid for their house. From what I can see - houses seem to cost a noticeably lower price than they would be worth on the face of it if a neighbour has any "rights" in their garden. I would be interested to know if they paid a price reflecting those "neighbour access rights" (ie lower) or no. If they paid a price that DIDNT reflect those "access rights" then they will be telling themselves those rights cant really exist - or otherwise they would have been charged less for the house than they were.

I suspect the last owner of their house told them those rights no longer apply - and then charged them a "minus rights" price for the property.

One way or another - it may well be that the neighbour genuinely thinks those rights have lapsed and haven't studied their deeds that carefully. Give benefit of doubt to start with on that - rather than thinking its a try-on. The vast majority of people will assume that their garden is their own inviolate territory and only start looking up deeds to check if they see neighbours trying to use it (as there are neighbours who will try to use other peoples gardens when they don't actually have any rights to at all - and a quick check of the deeds will reveal that fact).

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'd tend to go down the GM route - ie that coffee and cake - to start with.

I suspect the last owner of their house told them those rights no longer apply - and then charged them a "minus rights" price for the property.

Coffee & cake is all very well, but the two people have only just met and we don't know the age and sex of the OP.

Would you go into a total stranger's house if that person was male?

Would you want to discuss something like this on their territory, or your own?

And if the person concerned bought the house in the usual way, don't you think their conveyancer pointed out all easements and rights like this, as is their duty?