Right of access denied

princeofpounds

Coffee & cake is all very well, but the two people have only just met and we don't know the age and sex of the OP.

Coffee and cake is just a phrase that G_M uses to make a general point from time on the forum.


I happen to think it's all a bit twee personally ;-)


Not to be taken too literally; adjust as required to suit circumstances.


And, unless there is something that hasn't been disclosed, the neighbour is talking rubbish. It is your ROW, and it's pretty rare for such things to be extinguished.


You can understand why they are having a go, but I do think it is best to be clear you understand your right.


You might want to talk to the other neighbour first too, just to see what the history is there. In case you have missed something, or you want to know how the disgruntled neighbour might react. (It's possible this other neighbour is a blocker rather than a user of the other ROW depending on the physical arrangement, bear that in mind before you talk too much about your own stance).

Davesnave

princeofpounds wrote: »

Coffee and cake is just a phrase that G_M uses to make a general point from time on the forum.

Sorry, my inferential comprehension is rubbish first thing in the morning!

davidmcn

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

From what I can see - houses seem to cost a noticeably lower price than they would be worth on the face of it if a neighbour has any "rights" in their garden.

I think you're seeing things - there isn't any significant effect in value just because the neighbour can wheel their bin along your path once a week (and conversely, if the OP had to take everything through their house then it might be a bit of a hassle, but they could probably live with it). The average buyer isn't adding or deducting thousands from the price, they just shrug it off as one of those title things their solicitor tells them about.

Norman_Castle

danslenoir wrote: »

I took the bins out via this route tonight and the neighbour popped out to introduce herself and to say (in a friendly tone) that there was no right of access, it had never been used since she moved in and "suggested" it didn't exist (apart from historically as a 'coal run' - So there is a right of access. The coal run has now been replaced with the bin run.which seems weird as there is a gate in the fence between our properties that doesn't look very old), and that they would prefer us not to use it in case of any legal problems as there had previously been some 'issues' with the house on the other side of theirs. Caused by a home owner trying to block the right of way?

I think the non historic gate says it all. They know there is a right of way but wish there wasn't.. Explain as politely as possible that you understand they would prefer you not to use the right of way but at times you will need to.
If the didn't want their neighbours walking through their garden they should have bought a house without a right of way.

Land_Registry

The approach suggested by OP and others re a friendly chat is in my experience the best one to take.

A couple of things to add though re replies to date.

The registrations for each property will have been completed separately and at a different point in time. Each application is treated on merit and is based on the deeds/documents submitted at that time.

This can mean that where such a right of way has been granted/reserved that it can appear on one title and not the other simply because for example no deed granting/reserving that right was submitted at the time of registration.

There is no 'updating' of a neighbouring title to refer to the same right of way. Such rights (easements) are registered on application and not on the basis that 'next door mentions it'.

As to 'extinguishment' and as suggested this is fairly rare. A right will not simply cease to exist through for example a lack of use and invariably there has to also be some clear indication that the right is no longer wanted/needed or intended to be used e.g. the gate removed, a gap in a wall bricked up etc

Seller's information - this is always useful in understanding what has 'gone before' although their comments re the right, on their own, might have triggered your conveyancer to raise it with you before proceeding. I suspect your conveyancer checked the neighbouring title and saw the already registered right so may not have raised it with you.

If you want to read up on the registration issues relevant to 'easements' then our Practice Guide may be of interest. However the details you already have along with 'tea & cake' should be sufficient to at least have a friendly chat around the matter as a whole.

That would always be my advice unless along with the caveat of getting legal advice as well, especially if the matter was not raised/discussed between you and your conveyancer at the time of purchase.

jbainbridge

Wilma33 wrote: »

Were the bins in the back garden when you moved in?

An excellent question!

Davesnave

jbainbridge wrote: »

An excellent question!

As the LR rep points out, what the previous owner did isn't that important, as it takes more than a lack of use to extingiush a RoW.

Dan-Dan

Davesnave wrote: »

As the LR rep points out, what the previous owner did isn't that important, as it takes more than a lack of use to extingiush a RoW.

I think they mean just in the regard to see if its the neighbour taking the !!!! or really is unaware of the right

Davesnave

Dan-Dan wrote: »

I think they mean just in the regard to see if its the neighbour taking the !!!! or really is unaware of the right

I get that, but even if the bin was in the back garden, it might not indicate anything. For example, the previous resident may just have left it where it would be safest, though they'd normally have filled it gradually at the front.

People do untypical things when they vacate. I even cleaned behind the cooker.

danslenoir

Thanks all for the advice - we will go and speak with the neighbour tonight and see what they have to say when presented with the title register.

Also an interesting update from the vendor of our purchase who I requested feedback from on this issue.

The vendor stated that we have every legal right to go through there but that the neighbour can be a bit of a difficult character. Apparently the neighbour took the same stance when the vendor moved in a few years ago - the vendor couldn't be bothered to argue or take legal action so mostly left the bins at the front of the house and used the access 'a lot' when the neighbour was not in her property.

I'm pretty sure the property information form would have said that there were no disputes with the neighbours - does this (i.e. vendor tried to use right of access, the right was denied by the neighbour, vendor didn't argue back and only used it when neighbour wasn't in) constitute a dispute? If so, do we have any come back on the vendor assuming the neighbour continues to refuse access and legal action potentially follows?