Right of access denied

xylophone

It would appear that the OP has a legal right of way.

If so (and he can confirm with the solicitor who acted in the purchase, he should politely inform his neighbour that this is the case and back it up with a copy of the documentary evidence for their records?

Davesnave

danslenoir wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the property information form would have said that there were no disputes with the neighbours - does this (i.e. vendor tried to use right of access, the right was denied by the neighbour, vendor didn't argue back and only used it when neighbour wasn't in) constitute a dispute? If so, do we have any come back on the vendor assuming the neighbour continues to refuse access and legal action potentially follows?

It's not a dispute, but it is something which might lead to a dispute.

Although I'm working from memory, I'm pretty sure the property information form also asks about the latter, so this should have been mentioned.

You haven't got a legal action on your hands yet. If you are polite, but firm, and stand your ground by supplying the documentary evidence and using the RoW, the odds are still against expensive legal action. No one really wants it.

societys_child

danslenoir wrote: »

The vendor stated that we have every legal right to go through there but that the neighbour can be a bit of a difficult character. Apparently the neighbour took the same stance when the vendor moved in a few years ago - the vendor couldn't be bothered to argue or take legal action so mostly left the bins at the front of the house and used the access 'a lot' when the neighbour was not in her property.

Doesn't really sound like a dispute, just the opposite. Appears they didn't want an argument and didn't want to cause a dispute.
I'd use the ROW and if confronted again, very sweetly ask the neighbour to produce some documentation which over-rides your ROW. (put the onus back on her)
She'll probably never mention it again when she realises you don't buckle that easily and she has nothing to back up her story.

Don't forget to smile and say hello whenever your paths cross - probably drive her mad

Be nice to your neighbours at all times

Mojisola

danslenoir wrote: »

This was right of access was not described or mentioned at all in the title register for the house we purchased but it clearly states in the neighbour's title register from the land registry:


Subject also to a right of way for the owners tenants or occupiers for the time being of the adjoining property Number X, XXX Road [our house] aforesaid and all persons authorised by them at all times and for all purposes on foot only over and along the passage or way to the North side and to the rear of the property hereby conveyed

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

In the course of it - I'd explain that I did know my property has the legal right to access. However, being someone else's garden - then I would be "reasonable" in my attitude about what times I used it.

I know I would feel rather nervous if someone just popped up in my garden at night or if I was out sunbathing quietly in it.

I would be very wary of even verbally reducing the rights attached to your property.

If the neighbour didn't want people passing through their garden, they shouldn't have bought a house with a right of way!

Leo2020

I do find it very odd that neighbours get like this, they bought a terraced house and surprise, surprise there is a ROW. If they didn't like it they should have bought a semi or detached house which is unlikely to have a ROW.

I would be reasonable and friendly but as suggested by others don't tell them you will limit the ROW use - although that might be OK now your circumstances might change and you might need to use it more often. At least if you leave it open ended they can't complain if you use it once a month, every day or whenever.

Vectis

Dan-Dan wrote: »

I think they mean just in the regard to see if its the neighbour taking the !!!! or really is unaware of the right

The neighbour would be aware of the right of way as there's a gate between the gardens.

They are probably just wishing there wasn't as it's not nice that someone else has access to your garden - but yes, I agree, they shouldn't have bought a house with a right of way across it if they didn't like it!

OP, didn't your solicitor/conveyancer mention rights of way during the purchase?

Guest101

danslenoir wrote: »

Thanks all for the advice - we will go and speak with the neighbour tonight and see what they have to say when presented with the title register.

Also an interesting update from the vendor of our purchase who I requested feedback from on this issue.

The vendor stated that we have every legal right to go through there but that the neighbour can be a bit of a difficult character. Apparently the neighbour took the same stance when the vendor moved in a few years ago - the vendor couldn't be bothered to argue or take legal action so mostly left the bins at the front of the house and used the access 'a lot' when the neighbour was not in her property.

I'm pretty sure the property information form would have said that there were no disputes with the neighbours - does this (i.e. vendor tried to use right of access, the right was denied by the neighbour, vendor didn't argue back and only used it when neighbour wasn't in) constitute a dispute? If so, do we have any come back on the vendor assuming the neighbour continues to refuse access and legal action potentially follows?

I doubt it. A 'dispute' can have numerous meanings, from experience, for the purposes of the property information pack, a dispute would be one which was registered with some form of professional body (e.g. courts, council, police).


The vendor clearly didn't feel this was a dispute as they've clearly said they did not go down the legal route and used the front of the property to store their bins.

EmmyLou30

Well the response from the vendor speaks volumes about your new neighbour really. She clearly knows there is a ROW and doesn't like it (I wouldn't either but then I wouldn't buy a house with one so it's her own fault and she has to suck it up and live with it). She tried the same trick last time and it worked, so she's trying it on you hoping you'll give in 'for a quiet life'. Whatever you do, don't give in! Tell her politely you know there to be a ROW and you'll need to use it for bins and garden work so only occasionally (thereby acting in a neighbourly fashion). But don't mention anything about working to times to suit her etc as that'd be showing her you're willing to be walked all over like the vendor was.

moneyistooshorttomention

Davesnave wrote: »

It's not a dispute, but it is something which might lead to a dispute.

Although I'm working from memory, I'm pretty sure the property information form also asks about the latter, so this should have been mentioned.

You haven't got a legal action on your hands yet. If you are polite, but firm, and stand your ground by supplying the documentary evidence and using the RoW, the odds are still against expensive legal action. No one really wants it.

Agree with this. It is something that "might lead to a dispute". A surprising number of vendors can suddenly have a fit of forgetfulness:cool:;):cool: when it comes to mentioning matters that "might lead to a dispute" (as a lot of us can attest:mad:).

I'm keeping my own vendors lie on that point (which...yep...it is in that Property Information Form) up my sleeve in case I need to take a walk to his house to talk to him about it at any point;)

moneyistooshorttomention

Mojisola wrote: »

I would be very wary of even verbally reducing the rights attached to your property.

If the neighbour didn't want people passing through their garden, they shouldn't have bought a house with a right of way!

I wasn't suggesting "verbally reducing" rights. I wouldn't have said a word to the neighbour concerned that I intended to use it only at reasonable times. I would just, in my own mind, check out with myself whether I thought it was a reasonable time before I did so iyswim. So, if I intended to use that access, then I would be planning on doing so at, say, 8/9am of a morning or 6/7pm of an evening - as I think those are reasonable times (ie not in the main daytime hours - in case they were sunbathing or having a lunch in their garden).

Having said that - I wouldn't personally be claiming that "right" unless I had to (eg having to take bulky items I'd bought in that way - because they literally wouldn't manage to come through my house). I would be taking my rubbish through my house personally - rather than "invade" someone else's garden just because I "had a right to".

NB; It is a point to bear in mind that Councils have written rules about when rubbish can be put out the front for taking. If OP insists on using their "right" to walk through someone else's garden to put it out - then they would be as well to check what time the Council says on the website carefully. Reason being - the Council is likely to enforce those times scrupulously (by coincidence....ahem....not...) if rubbish is taken out at any other time.