Closest thing to "civil partnership" for couple who are not same-sex.

onlyroz

HanSpan wrote: »

It really isn't the same though. Slavery is illegal so being British today is not associated with slavery now. The traditions that denote a woman as second class in a marriage are not illegal, not banned, not even out of fashion so marriage is still very much associated with them all.

It's like saying "My friend is submissive to her husband, therefore I must be submissive to mine". A marriage is what you make of it, not what society says it "should" be.

Spendless

When I married in Florida. We had to turn up at the official registry place (can't remember it's correct name), fill out a form, read a booklet, which was mostly about who got what in the event of a split, take the form back to the window, confirm we'd read booklet and then we were asked 'do you want to get married now, or do you have a ceremony booked?' As it happened we had a ceremony booked the following day, complete with limo, white dress and my sister as a bridesmaid.;) but should we have taken up the offer I am assuming we'd have just gone and said some words (don't know which ones) and still have been married. Why not just look up what U.S state has you doing the very least and book that?!

HanSpan

Mojisola wrote: »

I don't have any objection to a civil partnership being available for everyone but there would have to be some differences between it and a marriage otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having two options.

It's unlikely that a CP would give more rights than a marriage so won't it be a second-best option?

There are differences! You can't annul a civil partnership just because you don't have sex. You don't have to say the other person is your wife/husband. All of the differences are things I welcome.

HanSpan

Person_one wrote: »

Would you really want a union that actually offers less financial and legal benefits just because you prefer the name?

Can you be specific about what financial and legal benefits you think aren't included in civil partnerships that are in a marriage? I can't find any evidence that there are differences in those areas.

HanSpan

onlyroz wrote: »

It's like saying "My friend is submissive to her husband, therefore I must be submissive to mine". A marriage is what you make of it, not what society says it "should" be.

I'm afraid that is still not a good analogy. How someone behaves is not at all the same as the traditions and beliefs surrounding something.

Person_one

HanSpan wrote: »

Can you be specific about what financial and legal benefits you think aren't included in civil partnerships that are in a marriage? I can't find any evidence that there are differences in those areas.

As I recall, pension rights are different, as they can only be backdated to the time civil partnerships became law.

As stated previously, civil partnerships are not recognised in most other countries.

I note that you haven't responded to my second question in that post though, and I'd be interested in the answer. To save you going back a page it was:

"The 'historical baggage' around CPs is no more pleasant than that around marriage. Does a background of homophobia and discrimination based on sexuality bother you any less than a background of sexism and discrimination based on gender?"

pigpen

Hanspan, bless you.. if you want a sneaky wedding in Scotland.. tell the rellies you're going for a dirty weekend.. they won't want to know any more! Make it about you, as it all should be. You can be bridezilla or groomzilla or get wed in a chicken suit.. discuss this with your partner.. it is about you both after all.. write the pros and cons.. and the bottom line is.. you want your partner to have legal rights and financial security upon your demise and if marriage is the only way you can ensure that surely the sacrifice now, 15 minutes of a ceremony that will provide both of you with that security is worth it.. 15 minutes to protect each other when the other dies shows great strength of character if you have very strong feelings about it. I'd give my left arm to marry my partner to protect him and our children should I die first, which is likely (I'm older).. I guess I'm the other side of your story in a way.. I want to protect him and marriage is the only way and he wont let me.

I suggest you sit together and discuss it in detail (like we don't ) and see where it leads you, but it has to be about you, both of you and the future.

Person_one

HanSpan wrote: »

I'm afraid that is still not a good analogy. How someone behaves is not at all the same as the traditions and beliefs surrounding something.

Why would other people's beliefs be remotely relevant to your own marriage though?

Plenty of people think all sorts of outdated things. About women, about marriage, about certain professions, about the way people look, about gender, sexuality, race, politics etc etc ad infinitum.

barbiedoll

All of this is just splitting hairs really, if OP wants the legal and financial protection that marriage provides, she will have to get married, simple as that.

I've been married (twice!), and married to my now-husband for almost 18 years. I had his child before I married him, we got married because we wanted to, plus it protected him as the flat we lived in at the time was solely owned by me. I do use my married name on my driving license and my passport, however I have a bank account in my maiden name and I'm known by my maiden name at work. We just pick and choose the bits of marriage that work for us. I wore a Chinese style cream dress when I got married (purchased to wear at someone else's wedding), we both have rings and we had a party at home. No being "given away", my father is not mentioned on my marriage certificate as I haven't seen him for over 40 years, and I have never felt that I was part of a "patriachial" tradition, I consider us to be equal partners, as does my husband!

A couple of my friends are vehemently against marriage, one of them because of seeing her mother trapped in an abusive marriage for years. Another is against it for similar reasons to OP, her and her partner have spent a lot of time and money on solicitors drawing up documents to give each of them mirror wills, rights as next of kin, rights over their children and so on. Maybe this would be a solution to OP's moral dilemma?

It all sounds a bit much for me though, 15 mins in the RO and the deed is done.....no-one need ever know!

HanSpan

Spendless wrote: »

When I married in Florida. We had to turn up at the official registry place (can't remember it's correct name), fill out a form, read a booklet, which was mostly about who got what in the event of a split, take the form back to the window, confirm we'd read booklet and then we were asked 'do you want to get married now, or do you have a ceremony booked?' As it happened we had a ceremony booked the following day, complete with limo, white dress and my sister as a bridesmaid.;) but should we have taken up the offer I am assuming we'd have just gone and said some words (don't know which ones) and still have been married. Why not just look up what U.S state has you doing the very least and book that?!

I'm struggling to find anywhere that gives details of what (if any) words are mandatory anywhere in the US. That's one of the things I started this hoping someone else had either already found or knew where to look!
I can find the documents you need and what you have to do before and so on, but not what words must be said .
I found it pretty easy to find the mandatory words for the UK but I am not as familiar with the US government sites so I still haven't found the answer. Ive wandering round some very confusing legalese and plenty of sites offering weddings of all types, but nothing like the very clear bit of the UK govt website that shows the three options for the mandatory words for any wedding here.

It may just be I'm being crappy at searching! I usually find what I need but sometimes I just can't come up with the right combination of words.