Architect - taken 12 months to get extension agreed

lucylou32

Lasted email received from my 'architect'

I have been waiting for Tonbridge & Malling Borough Council (TMBC) to issue a response. It’s very concerning that it takes over 4 weeks for a Building Control Surveyor to review structural calculations. This is why I personally do not use Local Authority Building Control, and also they do not provide any legal protection for you.

Following the production of the CCTV survey from Southern Water, the survey has identified two main sewers running along the far boundary line with your curtilage. The side small two storey extension has the foul sewer running under the corner of the property, which does not meet Southern Waters requirements.

You have two options:

1) Submit a sewer amendment application form, which in my opinion will cost a significant amount of money and time;
2) Submit an additional planning application to move the side small two storey extension (WC/en-suite) to the front of the property.

The location of the two sewers was not established prior to developing planning drawings as it’s usually very rare to undertake a statutory service at an early stage for this type of project . The existing visible waste manhole covers and the anticipated drain directions have been considered for the design.

The side two storey side extension (excludes two storey extension with WC/en-suite) can commence while option 2 has been initiated. In my opinion, due to the change in location a simple ‘non material’ amendment would not be accepted by the local planning team.

I await your instructions how you wish to proceed.


Ok.. So I was wrong, my expectation that my builder could start in May was way out... But I don't think I'm an unreasonable person, if he'd told me it'd take closer to 12 months, I may have asked around it that was an average timescale, but I would have accepted it and not have been so rude to him at taking so much longer than expected

Based upon the above email, I'm not sure, but it's looking like he's saying we have to start again? Right from the initial drawings/full plans application?

lucylou32

Furts wrote: »

I am a fellow professional and would tend to agree with you - I differ on minor points with your stance.

The crux is OP's post 19. The designer had a contract to be paid in advance because OP refers to an invoice in January. Yet this does not tally with the designer receiving an instruction in February. This will remain a grey area. Did OP know what she was doing or was she deemed a bad credit risk? why pay in advance? Is it usual to pay in advance in your industry? My builder asked for a deposit up front to start buying building materials, but clearly said the largest % is paid upon completion of the work. My architect never gave me a date of when payment was expected by and when he gave me the price/invoice in January, we hadn't even chosen an Architect yet! So certainly would not have paid it immediately, when we told him in February, that interviews were over and we'd chosen him, he still didn't give a date of when payment was expected. We actually thought we'd paid promptly upon completion of the service

Regardless the designer was paid in April when the brief had been completed. The brief was clearly for a Full Plans submission. OP's post does not mention Buildings Regulations. Hence OP knew that the timescale she was requesting had not been met and was not achievable. Building regulations weren't mentioned, until the builder asked for them, after I'd delightedly told him planning permission had been received. I thought we were ready to start work. I had to go back to the architect and ask.. What are building regulations and how do I get them for the builder..

The Buildings Regulations and Build Over appear to be sorted out by August - but OP has declined to answer your clearly detailed post on this matter. I'll go back and look for this, I didn't mean to miss a post.. And by sorted, you mean requested right? We haven't received permission to go ahead yet, as both documents were missing vital info

OP has declined to pay for the work undertaken in achieving Buildings Regulations and the Build Over. Hence matters have stalled. Bizarrely OP chooses to ask why matters have taken so long. The reality is the wait from August onwards could be because of her unwillingness to pay. (achieving.. I wish)That's correct, we've told him, we're not paying, until we have the building regulations and build over agreement, because quite frankly, I was afraid we'd pay up front and it'd take another year to get what we needed.. why pay for a service if that service has not been received.

To quote a cliche "you couldn't make it up".

It looks like I may be expected to start from scratch anyway...

lucylou32

MisterBaxter wrote: »

By all means complain to the ARB but if he is not ARB registered and doesn't claim anywhere official to be an 'Architect' then it is unlikely that anything will come of it. They can take a case to Court (they have no direct powers to impose sanctions to non members) if they find that a person is falsely using the title 'Architect' but more than likely they will just write a stern letter, in your case the professional will simply respond to say that he didn't claim to be an 'Architect' but that he provided the sort of services that an 'Architect' may be expected to provide. You may be better focussing your efforts on your family and moving forward, getting the job complete.

It is important however to remember that you specifically stated you wanted an 'Architect' and that he took the commission knowing that; if he did take you to Court for unpaid fees then your defence/counterclaim is that he misrepresented himself.

To move forward:-

a. Do you have all of the plans you need to proceed with the project to completion? ]no
b. Do you have Planning Consent in place with all conditions addressed?we have planning permission
c. Do you have Building Regulations approval in place? ]no
d. Do you have the Build Over Agreement in place? ]no

If the answer to all of the above is YES then I would say you can cut your professional loose and handover the project to a builder to take through to completion; any competent builder should be able to take it from there.

If there are some outstanding issues is your builder able to deal with them; many builders would have provided the whole service themselves so yours may be able to deal with any of the outstanding matters. Have the conversation with your builder.

The builder has said, he's happy to take over, the minute he has planning regulations and build over consent.

Furts

lucylou32 wrote: »

Lasted email received from my 'architect'

I have been waiting for Tonbridge & Malling Borough Council (TMBC) to issue a response. It’s very concerning that it takes over 4 weeks for a Building Control Surveyor to review structural calculations. This is why I personally do not use Local Authority Building Control, and also they do not provide any legal protection for you.

Following the production of the CCTV survey from Southern Water, the survey has identified two main sewers running along the far boundary line with your curtilage. The side small two storey extension has the foul sewer running under the corner of the property, which does not meet Southern Waters requirements.

You have two options:

1) Submit a sewer amendment application form, which in my opinion will cost a significant amount of money and time;
2) Submit an additional planning application to move the side small two storey extension (WC/en-suite) to the front of the property.

The location of the two sewers was not established prior to developing planning drawings as it’s usually very rare to undertake a statutory service at an early stage for this type of project . The existing visible waste manhole covers and the anticipated drain directions have been considered for the design.

The side two storey side extension (excludes two storey extension with WC/en-suite) can commence while option 2 has been initiated. In my opinion, due to the change in location a simple ‘non material’ amendment would not be accepted by the local planning team.

I await your instructions how you wish to proceed.


Ok.. So I was wrong, my expectation that my builder could start in May was way out... But I don't think I'm an unreasonable person, if he'd told me it'd take closer to 12 months, I may have asked around it that was an average timescale, but I would have accepted it and not have been so rude to him at taking so much longer than expected

Based upon the above email, I'm not sure, but it's looking like he's saying we have to start again? Right from the initial drawings/full plans application?

Yes it looks like your scheme is dead. I am not there to give my direct opinion, nor the other good source MisterBaxter. In principle diverting sewers/drains can cost considerable sums particularly if it is a large pipe. Further, it may not be technically possible to divert the drain.

But the crux is to talk to your designer. Communication is a two way process. You have given the designer a huge slagging off. I doubt that he deserves all he is accused of. You need to find a means of communication between the two of you that works - many people would try a rational face to face informal meeting. This would be minuted/confirmed/actionned.

Also bear in mind that you sing the praises of your wonderful builder. I do not view the builder like this. If they were wonderful and closely involved why did they not forewarn you of the need for Buildings regulations? Why did they not step in take on this mantle? Why have they not brokered an agreement? Of course this is not their role, but to a third party like myself something does not stack up with this whole sorry saga.

Bluntly you have a problem with your designer and it might be better if you pay up and start again with a fresh source. I have a gut feeling that your designer might be overjoyed if you were to do this.

MisterBaxter

Before you give up completely ask your professional to provide a cost estimate for the options that he is suggesting are available. Also ask the question as to how much of what he has already done is usable in a new scheme. Then ask yourself if the new scheme is what you want or do you want to rethink the whole project. Starting over may or may not be the most desirable outcome for you but similarly it could be the opportunity to get closer to what you originally had hoped for.

If the scheme is un-salvageable then now is the time to cut the current professional loose and get someone else in as the trust is lost and it is unlikely to have much in the way of a cost implication. However if there is room to salvage the scheme you will have to weigh up the pros and cons of trying to work through it with the current person as it may be the cheaper option overall. That of course assumes he wants to carry on working for you; he may also see this as a chance to walk away without consequence.

I would be very reluctant to start any part of the scheme until you have fully appraised all of the options available to you as doing so could be limiting to any other options that may present themselves.

This time make it very clear that you want honest realistic solutions and costs and be prepared to hear things that you don't really want to hear.

lucylou32

Furts wrote: »

Yes it looks like your scheme is dead. I am not there to give my direct opinion, nor the other good source MisterBaxter. In principle diverting sewers/drains can cost considerable sums particularly if it is a large pipe. Further, it may not be technically possible to divert the drain.

But the crux is to talk to your designer. Communication is a two way process. You have given the designer a huge slagging off. I doubt that he deserves all he is accused of. You need to find a means of communication between the two of you that works - many people would try a rational face to face informal meeting. This would be minuted/confirmed/actionned.we have requested face to face visits before, all communication has been via email and a lot of what he says, I don't understand. However, his response was at first 'I'm too busy' and then we did see him in October (the builder was here as well) however, upon leaving he says there will be no more visits, 'my fee doesn't include onsite visits'

Also bear in mind that you sing the praises of your wonderful builder. I do not view the builder like this. If they were wonderful and closely involved why did they not forewarn you of the need for Buildings regulations? Why did they not step in take on this mantle? Why have they not brokered an agreement? Of course this is not their role, but to a third party like myself something does not stack up with this whole sorry saga. you have answered your own question. It is not his role. He made it clear from the beginning, he steps in when all permissions have been obtained. My family have used him for years, he's blunt, doesn't care what you 'want' to hear, he's just truthful.

Bluntly you have a problem with your designer and it might be better if you pay up and start again with a fresh source. I have a gut feeling that your designer might be overjoyed if you were to do this.

pay him? his invoice does state 'building regulations submission' and he did submit drawings, the fact the council didn't find them adequate and no regulations were provided.. That doesn't matter?

lucylou32

MisterBaxter wrote: »

Before you give up completely ask your professional to provide a cost estimate for the options that he is suggesting are available. Also ask the question as to how much of what he has already done is usable in a new scheme. Then ask yourself if the new scheme is what you want or do you want to rethink the whole project. Starting over may or may not be the most desirable outcome for you but similarly it could be the opportunity to get closer to what you originally had hoped for.

If the scheme is un-salvageable then now is the time to cut the current professional loose and get someone else in as the trust is lost and it is unlikely to have much in the way of a cost implication. However if there is room to salvage the scheme you will have to weigh up the pros and cons of trying to work through it with the current person as it may be the cheaper option overall. That of course assumes he wants to carry on working for you; he may also see this as a chance to walk away without consequence.

I would be very reluctant to start any part of the scheme until you have fully appraised all of the options available to you as doing so could be limiting to any other options that may present themselves.

This time make it very clear that you want honest realistic solutions and costs and be prepared to hear things that you don't really want to hear.

Thank you for this. And yes, although I did ask for a timeline, who's responsible for what etc a number of times over the last year, if I do proceed with this gentlemen, I'll make sure he provides this before we go any further, because all these surprises are giving me a headache

MisterBaxter

This link provides a standard form of agreement; I'm not suggesting you use it but it does give you an indication of the services that you would normally get from an Architect. You won't want or need all of them but they are a starting point for discussion and give you an idea of the sort of things to look for. It also gives you something to prompt you and seek indications of timescales for the various phases of the project.

http://acarchitects.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ACASFA08WorkedExampleA41.pdf

Doozergirl

Furts wrote: »

Yes it looks like your scheme is dead. I am not there to give my direct opinion, nor the other good source MisterBaxter. In principle diverting sewers/drains can cost considerable sums particularly if it is a large pipe. Further, it may not be technically possible to divert the drain.

But the crux is to talk to your designer. Communication is a two way process. You have given the designer a huge slagging off. I doubt that he deserves all he is accused of. You need to find a means of communication between the two of you that works - many people would try a rational face to face informal meeting. This would be minuted/confirmed/actionned.

Also bear in mind that you sing the praises of your wonderful builder. I do not view the builder like this. If they were wonderful and closely involved why did they not forewarn you of the need for Buildings regulations? Why did they not step in take on this mantle? Why have they not brokered an agreement? Of course this is not their role, but to a third party like myself something does not stack up with this whole sorry saga.

Bluntly you have a problem with your designer and it might be better if you pay up and start again with a fresh source. I have a gut feeling that your designer might be overjoyed if you were to do this.

I am going to stick my oar in and agree about the 'wonderful builder'. He hasn't built anything yet.

A wonderful builder would be grabbing the bull by the horns and asking the people involved !!!!!! is going on. I could not spend six months pottering on other jobs, having mouths to feed. The guy is either busy and therefore unconcerned, or lazy. Either way, I don't think wonderful comes in to it at all.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt as I don't know anyone that isn't busy and assume that an extension in the 'future bank' is a nice thing to have.

I would be careful, OP, to make sure that your 'wonderful' antenna isn't broken, given the record this project already has.

It does sound like moving on to someone else and starting again is the first thing to do.

I still think the designer has been a bit rubbish. I also think it does help to do a bit of googling to work out what you should expect from a big project rather than sit wondering what happened and why when you're 11 months down the line.

And I do think that a wonderful builder would have made this happen, already.

System

There's more going on here than we are being given...
No explanation of why an invoice was submitted before the person was appointed?!
Still not sure if building regs were or weren't talked about at the outset, or why there was confusion here (surely all the others quoting for the job said about this issue too??)
The scope of the project seems to have changed but no reason why that has happened...?
Did the op get any comparable quoted from actual registered architects for the job? Did they know whether they were appointing an architect etc etc
There have been errors and flaws here but it seems quite cloudy as to what actually happened and what the timeline was