Thoughts for those that lost their lives in Paris

zarf2007

setmefree2 wrote: »

IS are easy to identify. They are the remains of Saddam Hussein's army. IS is controlled by Hussein's former officers many who worked for the Iraq's Intelligence Agency - they now do the same work for IS. So all the leaders of IS are former Iraqi officers and the foreign fighters are foot soldiers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

If a commitment is made to finish of IS for good, it could be argued that it's just finishing off the West's involvement in Iraq.

Finishing of Saddam Hussein's Army/IS for good is probably where we are going?

While some of the leaders are easy to identify as other people have said you now have effectively 'jihad franchises' which can be established anywhere without the need to interact with these leaders. Also kill a leader and someone else will take their place, this is not a scenario like killing hitler and it all falls apart.....

tbh other than undertaking the impossible task if identifying every current and potential attacker/sympathiser I really have no clue how this war can be won.

missyrichards

chris_m wrote: »

I suspect that it's because of the more "personal" nature of the attacks. We have become attuned to hearing of attacks in the Middle East and, even, bombing of planes or suicide bombing or just planted bomb attacks.
However, people just out for a pleasant evening's drink, meal or rock concert in a western city and being gunned down in cold blood is somewhat different and, dare I say it, new. It's no less unpleasant and despicable than any other terrorist actions, but I guess it hits harder.

Yes, I think it's because we see ourselves as similar to French people in some ways and can imagine this happening to us, being out on a Friday night having fun and being attacked out of nowhere.

It's probably not fair but we tend to have more sympathy with people we feel closer to.

setmefree2

zarf2007 wrote: »

While some of the leaders are easy to identify as other people have said you now have effectively 'jihad franchises' which can be established anywhere without the need to interact with these leaders. Also kill a leader and someone else will take their place, this is not a scenario like killing hitler and it all falls apart.....

tbh other than undertaking the impossible task if identifying every current and potential attacker/sympathiser I really have no clue how this war can be won.

It's exactly a scenario like killing Hitler and his supporters - Hussein's old guard need to be finished off once and for all....

zarf2007

setmefree2 wrote: »

It's exactly a scenario like killing Hitler and his supporters - Hussein's old guard need to be finished off once and for all....

yes, kill them and they will be replaced. what are you not getting?

bugslet

From our Southern depot, a delivery to Paris is a day job, I have French customers.

I don't deliver to Sharm;) and I don't have any Russian customers.

The connections are so much closer for France.

CLAPTON

zarf2007 wrote: »

yes, kill them and they will be replaced. what are you not getting?

in the same way that killing hitler : he would have been replaced

zarf2007

CLAPTON wrote: »

in the same way that killing hitler : he would have been replaced

hitler didnt have a global army of religious fanatics that hid among large parts of the population ready to be activated.

WannaBLoaded

corbyn on tv 'i wouldn't allow shoot to kill'

No, you'd probably let the terrorists use up all of their rounds on British citizens and then invite them to tea to talk it through.

Good job a weak man like jeremy corbyn will never be in power, ever.

Generali

It does rather show the weakness of Mr Corbyn's ideas on defence. Yes, peace is generally better than war but if someone is determined to fight you then you can either fight back or die.

'Jihadi John' was never going to be arrested. You can kill him or wait for him to kill you but there is no negotiation with a man like that. How can you argue with someone that wants to kill all gays and Christians for example? There is no centre ground to take. What do you offer in return....you can kill some of the Christians and put the rest in goal?

Moby

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

No its not.



He took action because he thought saddam had weapons of mass destruction, capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people - otherwise, saddam may have very well stayed put, which would probably have been better in the long run.

The tories now have to pick up the pieces of the labour governments economic mess and foreign policy mess, which means we now have little choice but to take part in a legal, well intelligence gathered (no pretend weapons of mass destruction), alliance with more allies than just usa and uk with a handful of other nato troops. This time we need to work alongside communist russia, bonkers iran, and our european allies need to commit the same level of military support as the uk does. That will be a force that no terrorists will reckon with.



Labours actions were deemed illegal by most of the world, this new war the whole world wants to happen, but labour and mr corbyn are out of touch with public opinion and think people like jihadi john will come quietly. Yeah, right.

You need to get rid of corbyn, he is a loser.

Russia is not communist. Iran is very influential in the middle east by the way. I repeat the tories voted for the Iraq war and the Afghanistan campaign and there is no defence they were lied to about weapons of mass destruction in that war.

I agree about Corbyn. He is clearly not up to leadership. He had a bad time tonight in the Monday meeting of the Labour MPs. I think in the shoot to kill comment he was referring to Charles Menezes. Problem is though the police always shoot to stop the threat.......and that means in effect killing the threat. They have no choice once the decision is made. Regarding jihadi John of course it would have been better to capture him alive and place him on trial. That way you hold him accountable to the world and to his victims directlly! Problem is we live in the real world and that was never going to happen.