Thoughts for those that lost their lives in Paris

vivatifosi

Mistermeaner wrote: »

It's such a tough one to know what to do - other than the UK completely distancing itself from anything to do western military action but it's probably too late for that.

I've been going back and forth in my mind on this since the news of the death in Iraq of the murderous jihadi psychopath on Fri.

Initially I thought that the balance may turn. As it has been confirmed that the government sanctioned the use of British drones as part of that attack, I wondered whether the argument would become that this would not have been possible were he in Syria, therefore Britain should go in to Syria too.

Then I heard about the slaughter of the (mostly young) innocents in Paris and thought it might go the other way and keep us out.

Meanwhile though ISIS has put out a statement saying that it had carefully selected its targets. One of which was a Cambodian restaurant. !!!!!! have the Cambodians ever done to upset ISIS?
It just highlights the truth: they are a brutal psychopathic death cult that just wants to murder people.

Sapphire

chewmylegoff wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of animals acting in horrible ways including killing for fun and cannibalising their own young. If you have a chimpanzee an ak47 it would probably shoot some other chimpanzees with it before eating their babies.

The big difference is that the humans have evolved consciences and know the difference between right and wrong. Other animals act through instinct and don't know what 'evil' is as a concept.

chris_m

Sapphire wrote: »

The big difference is that [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] most humans have evolved consciences and know the difference between right and wrong.

I've corrected that for you.

kabayiri

vivatifosi wrote: »

...
Meanwhile though ISIS has put out a statement saying that it had carefully selected its targets. One of which was a Cambodian restaurant.
...

They would claim this, wouldn't they.

The highest profile target on Friday was the football game; without question.

By any measure, they failed when it came to that target.

Choosing a small restaurant, or a concert venue with a band most have never heard of, smacks of "anything will do" mentality to me.

Even when they get lucky and everything works in their favour, the long term consequences can not be controlled.

The 9/11 attacks were aimed at the financial heart of New York. In the place of the Twin Towers is now a fantastic memorial and museum which draws many more visitors, and has much more impact on people, than two rather anonymous tower blocks. Could they have predicted that?

Thrugelmir

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Trouble is the guys that can do bad stuff need not be part of any formal organisation - isolated individuals / isolated groups can claim to be 'isis' without ever having contact with any of the 'official isis'.

ISIS is a state. It has schools. hospitals, legal system etc. It's very existance is the real threat to the free democratic world. As will breed hatred using all the tools available to it. There'll always be martyrs for the cause I agree. Hence my comment. Militarily ISIS has to be defeated. Without a military force and leadership it will crumble.

chris_m

Thrugelmir wrote: »

ISIS is a state.

No, ISIS is little more, legally, than a bunch of squatters occupying areas of genuine states.

It has schools. hospitals,

All nicked from the countries that they have occupied.

If they want their own state all they have to do is find some land which nobody else wants and they'd be welcome to it.

Thrugelmir

chris_m wrote: »

No, ISIS is little more, legally, than a bunch of squatters occupying areas of genuine states.

I doubt that they care about legalities.

You could hold the same view about Israel.

Moby

ISIS is no state of any sort. Its not a caliphate, despite what they claim. Its a cult with no legitimacy, other than their own warped zealotry.

WannaBLoaded

Moby wrote: »

Your post is a muddle of contradiction.....

No its not.

Blair took action just as you want now..... thinking he was sifting through taking out the 'filth' as you so eloquently put it!

He took action because he thought saddam had weapons of mass destruction, capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people - otherwise, saddam may have very well stayed put, which would probably have been better in the long run.

The tories now have to pick up the pieces of the labour governments economic mess and foreign policy mess, which means we now have little choice but to take part in a legal, well intelligence gathered (no pretend weapons of mass destruction), alliance with more allies than just usa and uk with a handful of other nato troops. This time we need to work alongside communist russia, bonkers iran, and our european allies need to commit the same level of military support as the uk does. That will be a force that no terrorists will reckon with.

Of course the reality is the biggest backers of ISIS are Sunni Muslims in central Iraq, Saddams tribe. The very people who are now subjected to discrimination by the ruling shia majority in the puppet Iraq govmt! Incidentally i seem to remember the tories voted for Iraq and Afghanistan so lets not be too party political clever !!!! about this!. That's all benefit of hindsight stuff now but surely one lesson we have learned is that you don't go in without a plan? What was Cameron's plan when he bombed Libya? Did he succeed in reducing radicalisation there? is Libya a more stable state now with no refugees?
What is clear is that Islamist extremists are adept at using social media etc as a means of turning people in our own countries against us! Ham fisted western 'revenge' responses will just make it worse imo.

Labours actions were deemed illegal by most of the world, this new war the whole world wants to happen, but labour and mr corbyn are out of touch with public opinion and think people like jihadi john will come quietly. Yeah, right.

You need to get rid of corbyn, he is a loser.

Thrugelmir

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

You need to get rid of corbyn, he is a loser.

Chamberlain acted in a similar fashion.