Thoughts for those that lost their lives in Paris

Sapphire

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

The west and eastern allies, even communist russia

I agree with much of what you say. However, Russia is no longer 'communist' (and it never really was – only by name).:D

Putin could actually gain a lot of good will if he did work with the 'West' (although perhaps utilising some of his own 'special measures'). I also think the West needs to work with Assad, and above all to understand the way that Near Eastern states have always worked – that is, they've been dictatorships that have enabled tribal people to live together relatively peacefully only because they had someone with an upper hand over them when it came to force. In fact, under Assad Muslims, Christians, Jews and others all lived relatively peacefully together, and I've never been able to understand the rhetoric that was aimed at him (unless it's due to the usual vested interests giving rise to political meddling). :cool:

Sapphire

Moby wrote: »

Due to the nature of my job I have regular training regarding radicalisation as part of the Govmts prevent strategy. The one thing that comes up again and again is how many of these young terrorists are alienated from their own culture and are also not identifying with their new British culture. They also have a sense of grievance against the state and usually have quite low self esteem. They are the types who get drawn in by the 'glamour' of Islamist extremism. IMO monitoring for signs of this and then working to address the issues in relation to this phenomenon needs to be dramatically increased in schools, colleges, prisons, (my own area) etc.

Interesting, what you say here. I watched footage of the individual who was given the name 'jihadi john', showing him as a teenager. He seemed to me to be what would often be described as a 'loser'. He was unattractive, small and apparently was told he had bad breath, so he held up his jacket to his face very often, covering his mouth. It seemed obvious to me that he had psychological problems that were probably nothing to do with his race or religion. It could be that it is individuals like this, who find the opportunity to be 'big men' in their own eyes, and to be noticed, that are often attracted to terrorism. Their mental problems are so severe that they are inured to compassion and any feelings like that. And some are probably just criminals who are after wealth and power (which their looting provides them with). Indeed, many seem to have criminal records.

Because of these factors, these people need to be eradicated from the face of the Earth, no messing around (in my view). This must (and I believe will) happen, and the sooner it does, the less extreme the measures that will need to be taken to eliminate this problem.

Another thing I've observed is how like video games some of the footage produced by daish appears to be – I wouldn't be surprised if such video games hadn't helped in the image these individuals want to project, and can well imagine some 'loser types' viewing such games avidly before deciding their careers would be those of psychopathic murders…

Sapphire

chris_m wrote: »

I've corrected that for you.

Indeed. Thank you.

BobQ

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

I'm not sure it is as cut and dry as you suggest, not having full parliamentary support seems to open a can of worms regarding law and financial claims against the government.

Yes cameron could probably go in if he wanted, but i actually prefer the idea of.........

So you agree Cameron has the authority to act without Parliament? The fact he does not suggests he is more worried about sharing the blame if it goes wrong than doing the right thing. Of course the legal basis for UK acting is not clear. It is no stronger than in Iraq which you call illegal.

Your ignorance of our Governmental system is frankly astounding.

This time it isn't just britain and america with irons in the fire, most of the middle east has come to the realisation that sitting around and watching the west spend money isn't going to solve their problems, why else do you think Iran, russia and gulf states are getting involved? Yes France was idle back in the day, but they have shown that they have changed their foreign policy, mali is a prime example of them looking to make a difference.

Iraq and Afghanistan were not just UK/US despite what you may have read about it. during your in depth research.

Action needs to be taken, the world can no longer allow fundamental terrorists claiming to be acting on behalf of allah to continue blowing up people, whether in muslim countries or in the west. Enough is enough.

I entirely agree with you on this. But I believed this when Bush and Blair determined the need to deal with these fundamentalists in Saddam's core areas of support. Those who could not see this need were content to watch while the weapons were taken off to Syria and they debated the legalities while France opposed military action.

Yolina

Not to distract from the debate going on, but just wanted to say that I am French and have been living in the UK for over 20 years.
Whilst I am absolutely awed by the general outpouring of sympathy and support since Friday evening, I can't understand why the same didn't happen after the Russian plane got blown up, or Beirut or any of the other atrocities that have taken place before that - lives aren't worth any less or more because of nationality or religion.

chris_m

Yolina wrote: »

Whilst I am absolutely awed by the general outpouring of sympathy and support since Friday evening, I can't understand why the same didn't happen after the Russian plane got blown up, or Beirut or any of the other atrocities that have taken place before that - lives aren't worth any less or more because of nationality or religion.

I suspect that it's because of the more "personal" nature of the attacks. We have become attuned to hearing of attacks in the Middle East and, even, bombing of planes or suicide bombing or just planted bomb attacks.
However, people just out for a pleasant evening's drink, meal or rock concert in a western city and being gunned down in cold blood is somewhat different and, dare I say it, new. It's no less unpleasant and despicable than any other terrorist actions, but I guess it hits harder.

Thrugelmir

Yolina wrote: »

Not to distract from the debate going on, but just wanted to say that I am French and have been living in the UK for over 20 years.
Whilst I am absolutely awed by the general outpouring of sympathy and support since Friday evening, I can't understand why the same didn't happen after the Russian plane got blown up, or Beirut or any of the other atrocities that have taken place before that - lives aren't worth any less or more because of nationality or religion.

For many it will bring memories of atrocities committed in recent history. There's something different about shooting people in cold blood over a period of time.

Yolina

Egypt has the Lebanese, French and Russian flags projected on the Giza pyramid which really is IMHO the right thing to do, I just wish more countries would do this if they're going to light a monument up in support, even if it does seem like a bit of an afterthought.
Also more mass graves of Yazidis have been found, so a thought for them too

zarf2007

I think people need to also consider that there is a 'fifth column' in this country who actively support the actions of IS. Look at the previous paris attack and the cafe owner in brick lane who showed his support for the victims only to be targeted by some local 'muslims' who threatened him unless he removed posters etc.

While I agree that not all muslims support these terrorist actions there are some that do and live among us, how do you fight an enemy like that? or is it up to the muslim community to weed them out? I fear the war with IS is worse than the 2nd world war in that at least we knew who the enemy was then, the same can't be said now.

Delia_Cardei

C'est la vie.
Hope everything will go well and those bad apples will pay back for what they have done.