Thoughts for those that lost their lives in Paris

Thrugelmir

zarf2007 wrote: »

this is not a scenario like killing hitler and it all falls apart.....

By the time Hitler took his own life. Huge swathes of Europe and in particular Germany were in total ruins. The war didn't end with the Normandy landings. It was only the start of the end.

Sapphire

zarf2007 wrote: »

tbh other than undertaking the impossible task if identifying every current and potential attacker/sympathiser I really have no clue how this war can be won.

I can certainly imagine how it could be won – though the method would be unpalatable to many (at least at present). The West is no longer used to responding to those who use brute force with the kind of brute force that would be needed to eradicate this problem from the face of this planet. It will take an event on a massive scale to make it do that. It would/will happen when nations begin to feel under serious threat…

Sapphire

WannaBLoaded wrote: »

corbyn on tv 'i wouldn't allow shoot to kill'

No, you'd probably let the terrorists use up all of their rounds on British citizens and then invite them to tea to talk it through.

Good job a weak man like jeremy corbyn will never be in power, ever.

Hearing him speak was really scary. He's living in a world all of his own, somewhere in an old leftie north London paradise I would imagine. It almost sounds as though he might be slightly senile.

I was also thinking thank God that millipede (or anyone else in the labour party) wasn't voted in in the recent election.:cool:

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

Hearing him speak was really scary. He's living in a world all of his own, somewhere in an old leftie north London paradise I would imagine. It almost sounds as though he might be slightly senile.

I was also thinking thank God that millipede (or anyone else in the labour party) wasn't voted in in the recent election.:cool:

I wonder if we're seeing the end of the Labour Party. They're already dead in Scotland after all.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

I wonder if we're seeing the end of the Labour Party. They're already dead in Scotland after all.

He'll have to go sooner or later. Hopefully the parliamentary party will wear him down. I seem to remember people talking about the tories in the same way in 1997. There is no great love for the tories either. They are in power by default because of the SNP etc. Once Labour get a credible leader......Dan Jarvis for instance......... things can change pretty quickly.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

He'll have to go sooner or later. Hopefully the parliamentary party will wear him down. I seem to remember people talking about the tories in the same way in 1997. There is no great love for the tories either. They are in power by default because of the SNP etc. Once Labour get a credible leader......Dan Jarvis for instance......... things can change pretty quickly.

It was exactly that sort of thinking that saw the Tories in the wilderness for 15 years.

The Tories aren't just in power because of the SNP. They won a majority and even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland they would still be the minority party. The Tories won power because they completely reinvented themselves just as Labour did under Blair, the last Labour leader to win an election for over 41 years and counting. By the time of the next election, assuming the Tory Government makes it that far, Labour will have had 2 leaders win an election in over 50 years and spent 17 of that 51 years in power.

Mr Corbyn is taking the party backwards not forwards, I cringe when I read his policies as they read like a Labour policy document from 1985: nationalisation, unilateralism, reopen the mines.

Voters don't know what Labour stands for any more. In 2015 they have had 4 policies on the Trident replacement alone. I fear Labour's destruction as I really worry about who will replace them: the 4th-nth placed parties are a bunch of nutters (Greens or UKIP as HMLO anyone???). Worse is that, as in Scotland, they are replaced by....nobody. If the thought of the Tories having untrammeled power for the next 20 years or whatever worries me it should terrify you.

Your lot need to ditch Mr Corbyn and ditch him fast as the longer he stays and the more the shadow cabinet are forced to parrot the crap he comes out with the more they are tainted. The problem there is that he genuinely seems to represent the grass roots of the party. Now that's great but he isn't going to win the General Election with 500,000 votes.

setmefree2

zarf2007 wrote: »

hitler didnt have a global army of religious fanatics that hid among large parts of the population ready to be activated.

Just being a religious fanatic isn't enough to explain IS. IS is a fighting machine. An army. It's not a lone wolf or sleeper cell. It's an army being used to suppress the people it's living among - just like it was used by Hussein in Iraq.

It's an army that can be fought and defeated.

Remember the Iraqi most wanted deck of cards?

The Republicans are really up for a fight.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

It was exactly that sort of thinking that saw the Tories in the wilderness for 15 years.

The Tories aren't just in power because of the SNP. They won a majority and even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland they would still be the minority party. The Tories won power because they completely reinvented themselves just as Labour did under Blair, the last Labour leader to win an election for over 41 years and counting. By the time of the next election, assuming the Tory Government makes it that far, Labour will have had 2 leaders win an election in over 50 years and spent 17 of that 51 years in power.

Mr Corbyn is taking the party backwards not forwards, I cringe when I read his policies as they read like a Labour policy document from 1985: nationalisation, unilateralism, reopen the mines.

Voters don't know what Labour stands for any more. In 2015 they have had 4 policies on the Trident replacement alone. I fear Labour's destruction as I really worry about who will replace them: the 4th-nth placed parties are a bunch of nutters (Greens or UKIP as HMLO anyone???). Worse is that, as in Scotland, they are replaced by....nobody. If the thought of the Tories having untrammeled power for the next 20 years or whatever worries me it should terrify you.

Your lot need to ditch Mr Corbyn and ditch him fast as the longer he stays and the more the shadow cabinet are forced to parrot the crap he comes out with the more they are tainted. The problem there is that he genuinely seems to represent the grass roots of the party. Now that's great but he isn't going to win the General Election with 500,000 votes.

I would think that any serious labour politician that wants a future, will take a leaf out of Hilary Benn's book this morning : basically says he hasn't clue what Corbyn meant about shoot to kill.

setmefree2

Generali wrote: »

'Jihadi John' was never going to be arrested. You can kill him or wait for him to kill you but there is no negotiation with a man like that. How can you argue with someone that wants to kill all gays and Christians for example? There is no centre ground to take. What do you offer in return....you can kill some of the Christians and put the rest in goal?

A man that beheaded 2 Brits and an American on camera and then put it on the internet and he thinks it's a bit of a shame we didn't arrest him!!!!
What planet is he living on?
If Jihadi Jez was PM Jihadi John would still be out there killing.

zarf2007

setmefree2 wrote: »

Just being a religious fanatic isn't enough to explain IS. IS is a fighting machine. An army. It's not a lone wolf or sleeper cell. It's an army being used to suppress the people it's living among - just like it was used by Hussein in Iraq.

It's an army that can be fought and defeated.

Remember the Iraqi most wanted deck of cards?

The Republicans are really up for a fight.

Its actually both. Its an army in the general sense and it is also a bunch of sleeper cells and 'lone wolfs'. In fact any loser who wants to make a name for themselves can suddenly turn to this brand of islam, pick up a kitchen knife, kill a few people and say its in the name of IS....how do you stop that?