PCM parking ticket rejection

Moneymike

I am in need of help here I got a parking fine from PCM on the 13th October 2015 of which I have replied but this was before having a look online and finding this forum. I have now had a look at the NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET Thread by Coupon-mad and I am still unsure what to do about this fine.

I made my initial representation stating who was driving, by mistake and was unhappy as the officer was over zealous as she started taking pictures as soon as I was coming out of the car. The reason I stopped was because I needed to close the passenger door of my car. I also stated I am a blue badge owner which wasn’t present at the time but at the same time was not needed. I did not park and leave my vehicle. All of this was mentioned in my response to NTO and I also used this opportunity to complain about how I was treated by the officer who was very rude.

1. What should I do now? As I have seen contradicting advice as the newbies thread states to ignore the IAS stage because they have an unaccountable appeals system, whereas Brigadier2014 has had a successful IAS appeal.

2. If I am to make an appeal to the IAS what points can I raise as to why this fine should be dismissed as my initial representation would fall under mitigation. Is there any obvious points I can make.

I have pictures of the NTK, signage and response from PCM but not allowed to upload links because I am a new user.

Jim_AFCB

Where did this happen?

If you want to upload pics, host them somewhere like Photobucket and put your link on here, changing "http" to "hxxp" and someone will convert them into links for you.

Redx

the choice is either appeal to the IAS , or not appeal to them , or to follow the advice given 8 days ago on parking pranksters blogsite (oct 30th I think) - its about ADR

read the prankster blog before deciding what to do

I assume PCM gave you leave to appeal to the IAS ?

if so, see what you think of the prankster comments before deciding yeah or nay

BTW, I can assure you that you did not receive a "fine"

its a pcn , Parking Charge Notice , the common name for it is INVOICE (FINE is legally incorrect - no private firm can "fine" you)

Moneymike

This happened at Academy Central Development. Do you know what points I can make regarding the appeal to IAS, if i decide to do so, any link there?

NTK Page 1- hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/2v9xj10.png
NTK Page 2- - hxxp://i63.tinypic.com/biuopd.png
Signage - hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/255hppz.jpg

Rejection letter Page 1 - hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/11i2sco.png
Rejection letter Page 2 - hxxp://i67.tinypic.com/fwrmog.png

Picture uploaded to PCM website of me getting out of the car - hxxp://tinypic.com/r/3497zpd/9

Jim_AFCB

Moneymike wrote: »

This happened at Academy Central Development. Do you know what points I can make regarding the appeal to IAS, if i decide to do so, any link there?

NTK Page 1- http://i66.tinypic.com/2nb6b6e.jpg
NTK Page 2- - http://i63.tinypic.com/biuopd.png
Signage - http://i65.tinypic.com/255hppz.jpg

Rejection letter Page 1 - http://i65.tinypic.com/11i2sco.png
Rejection letter Page 2 - http://i67.tinypic.com/fwrmog.png

Picture uploaded to PCM website of me getting out of the car - http://tinypic.com/r/3497zpd/9

There you go.....

I'd redact the barcode in the first link, and any details about the car. Probably the exact times too.

Redx

Moneymike wrote: »

This happened at Academy Central Development. Do you know what points I can make regarding the appeal to IAS, if i decide to do so, any link there?

appeals to either AOS are bespoke and because of the high number of rejections by the IAS nobody can tell you what to write or how to word it

usual appeal points apply though, like

no landowner contract (no locus standii)
poor signage
pofa 2012 not applying
NTK flaws

etc

but as the IAS is a kangaroo court where you have to prove your case and the ppc does not, then its loaded against you

so in simple terms, no , nobody can tell you what to appeal with or on what actual grounds , other than signage issues or paperwork issues etc , which is why the newbies thread writer thinks IAS appeals are a waste of time

this is also why the prankster offers the advice in his blog about ADR

Guys_Dad

Let me play Devil's Advocate. If you got out of the car to shut the passenger door, why did you close your door? And the photo of you outside the car could have been you returning after having parked for half an hour as you saw the warden. Isn't it coincidental that the warden was waiting just in front of where you stopped? You must have seen them, so why did you not just say that you were not parking as such, just stopping to close a door and is that ok?

I am not doubting you at all, just putting up the arguments that the PPC will use.

Moneymike

Jim_AFCB wrote: »

There you go.....

I'd redact the barcode in the first link, and any details about the car. Probably the exact times too.

NTK Page 1- hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/2v9xj10.png

thanks

Moneymike

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Let me play Devil's Advocate. If you got out of the car to shut the passenger door, why did you close your door? And the photo of you outside the car could have been you returning after having parked for half an hour as you saw the warden. Isn't it coincidental that the warden was waiting just in front of where you stopped? You must have seen them, so why did you not just say that you were not parking as such, just stopping to close a door and is that ok?

I am not doubting you at all, just putting up the arguments that the PPC will use.

The picture you see of the driver's door closed is after the warden took pictures of me getting out of my car. This is why I made a complaint with my representation because the warden was very quick to dish out this invoice as I got out to close the passenger door I started to engage in conversation where she was very rude as she took more pictures to which I asked her to stop as I couldn't identify her because she had no uniform on. This all happened really quick and it could have turned ugly if I decided to slap her camera out of her hand.

What I would like to know if there is any time limit in which PPC warden should offer before issuing their invoice and is there any laws they have broken here?

Redx

Moneymike wrote: »

What I would like to know if there is any time limit in which PPC warden should offer before issuing their invoice and is there any laws they have broken here?

here are a few pointers from a laymans point of view (I have no legal training so its what I have read and understood over the last few years coming on here and reading threads and posts)

there are little or no laws that govern parking on private land, its a largely unregulated industry and where only a judge can determine the outcome and make a judgment

in this case one law that applies could be the laws of trespass

another would be POFA 2012 if this happened in england or wales

another would be the 6 year rule for small claims if they wish to go to court (5 years in scotland)

another would be the laws of contracts , something the Supreme Court recently set precedents on in some cases

lastly is something that is not a law, the Code of Practice (or CoP) - in this case the IPC CoP

the government did introduce various laws, recently amalgamated into the CRA 2015 but the supreme court have changed some of those last week

in theory there is no time limit unless a judge ruled that there was , although 10 minutes was set on council land and roads recently so a judge may be persuaded by that argument

the ppc "warden" may have broke some laws although only a judge could say if it went that far, like not trying to mitigate the loss , or if they defrauded you like those UKPC wardens have done elsewhere

in essence, they can do as they like and if you wish to defend yourself you have the right to do so, in court, if they bring a court case

until then its a he said , she said scenario with them holding all the aces and trying to bluff you into paying up, with the threat of court if you dont pay up

largely speaking, this is civil law which is very ambiguous at times, but if any criminal laws were broken like UKPC wardens did, that would be completely different (ie:- something like fraud would be a criminal act)

so little or no laws govern the parking wardens on private land, just voluntary codes of practice, so its not like council car parks or roads where they have to have badges and uniforms etc, those are regulated by laws, private property isnt

Moneymike

I have tried to follow the advice of participants in this thread of going to the parking pranksters blogsite to get some advice on ADR and what I should do about this invoice I was issued on the 13th October 2015. When checking the parking pranksters website I was unable to find relevant advice on the site. So, I decided to follow the do nothing approach and now I have just received my first Debt Recovery Letter which I am not surprised about but I did noticed that it has come late and also not accurate.

Please see the Recovery letter which I received on 22/12/2015: [IMG]hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/15ejl07.jpg[/IMG]

To add - according to the attached letter they make reference to a letter sent to me on the 4/12/2015 of which is completely false as I did not receive. What I also concerned about is their reference to the landmark court ruling Beavis-v-ParkingEye LTD where it was found that the amount of the parking charge was legally enforceable. I have read that courts are using this as a presidence.

How does this affect my case and what action should I take now? If its possible could someone get me the links of where I can find advise on the parking pranksters blogsite in relation to my case