Vehicle Control Services - HM Courts and Tribunal Service Claim Form received...

Redx

the bundle should tell you how to reply to the court and to acknowledge the claim

you certainly cannot tell the court to "do one"

its a small claim filed in their local court , like CEL used to do with Barnet court

Wrapper

Redx wrote: »

the bundle should tell you how to reply to the court and to acknowledge the claim

you certainly cannot tell the court to "do one"

its a small claim filed in their local court , like CEL used to do with Barnet court

So hold on... all these threads saying "don't pay fines" and "they're not even fines" are rubbish! Because if they go through small claims you're screwed! So you end up paying anyway?!

Redx

they are invoices

the advice for the last 3 years (almost) has been to appeal them , certainly that has been the advice on here since march 2013

so you have been issued with an invoice by VCS that remains unpaid

the small claims service has been in force since 1973 , so they have the right to try to enforce the invoice using the small claims service, this they have done using Sheffield county court

as this has not come from Northampton its not an MCOL , its a small claim issued in their local court

you need to learn the process and fight this court claim , or they will get a default judgment which if not paid within 28 days leads to a CCJ

suggest you do some research on this, like thousands of others have had to do since they received court papers (over thirty thousamd court claims a year at the moment)

post #5 of the newbies sticky thread deals with court claims

any confusion was because we thought VCS as a large company would use Northampton and MCOL, they havent , they have lodged it with the local county court, which doesnt make it any the less valid

companies like this (or individuals like yourself) have always had the right to issue court claims, which you see on Judge Rinder on a daily basis on itv

ampersand

op - I haven't the experience to address your point, #15:
'Also - the stamp says "served on 29 Oct 2015"... in two days time??'

- but it would be a big ? for me. I'm sure one of the ubermeisters will have an answer. It's good you've found your way here, for up-to-date information and nous, right through to Court stage, still with some time on your side.
Make sure you follow the advice and gain that other 14 days, as per Umkomaas #9
#
re: 'all these threads saying "don't pay fines" and "they're not even fines" are rubbish!' however can be unpicked.

No mser on these private parking threads ever advises ' "don't pay fines"'.

Every mser with knowledge does say '"[STRIKE]they're not even[/STRIKE]Don't call them fines: They're unenforceable invoices."'

Only council traffic wardens, police and London Transport officials can issue parking fines.
#
You've let off steam. Now concentrate. READ, READ, READ, just as you've been advised above, by experienced forumites, who've helped people through all of this before.

bazster

Wrapper wrote: »

So hold on... all these threads saying "don't pay fines" and "they're not even fines" are rubbish! Because if they go through small claims you're screwed! So you end up paying anyway?!

They're not fines, and we never advise paying them, so not rubbish at all. What we have not advised for a number of years is simply ignoring them, and certainly not ignoring six.

However, if you are going to get shirty with us it is you who can do one, no-one here owes you advice or anything else.

Wrapper

bazster wrote: »

They're not fines, and we never advise paying them, so not rubbish at all. What we have not advised for a number of years is simply ignoring them, and certainly not ignoring six.

However, if you are going to get shirty with us it is you who can do one, no-one here owes you advice or anything else.

Apologies, I don't intend to get shirty, it just seemed like a catch-22. I'd always understood them to be invoices, and was always under the impression they would lead to nowhere.

Clearly this isn't the case.

I can research until I'm blue in the face here, I'm not great when it comes to legalities. I don't really understand where I stand and I can't seem to find any threads on google (recent at least) where someone has received this sort of letter.

If this were any of you, what would you be doing next? How would you reply? I don't intend on paying this, but what is the likelyhood I'll lose? Will there be any further to pay if I did lose? Is it worth just nipping it in the bud?

Many thanks for everyone's time so far.

Umkomaas

Is it worth just nipping it in the bud?

Now you're in the quagmire there's no way of 'nipping anything in the bud' (other than pay - which we don't advise, unless the court orders you to pay, then you do). You're in for the long haul and you've got to prepare yourself.

I've given you various pointers in my previous post, good to see you've now also posted on PePiPoo - between both forums you'll get the best range of advice, but ultimately you'll have to do lots of the work on this. None of us (individually) has the immediately correct answer to every question you pose, but between us we'll probably be able to come up with some really helpful suggestions.

I hope you can fight this - because we here, and colleagues on PePiPoo are naturally 'fight backers', but if you are tempted to pay VCS to get rid of this don't do that without making a sensible offer for them to drop the case. But you don't need to be doing that just yet - you've plenty of time until any court case comes up. It could be into the New Year. Your immediate priority is to get off your acknowledgement of service - ring the court again and ask how to do this if you can't find it in the paperwork - they are generally very helpful.

Redx

its a paper claim in small claims court , many are MCOL nowadays although this one isnt, but its a valid court claim and you need to defend it as you yourself said its a "live claim" as per your phone call to the court to check its status and validity

like it or not, you need to defend the claim, after acknowledging it

clearly they have decided to make an example of this one due to having 6 outstanding invoices , whereas it may not have been viable to claim in court for a single invoice

you have been picked to play , despite not understanding the rules, you are on the pitch and have to defend your goal, even if you dont want to play , its too late for that , the game is live, you are defending your goal and its like Salford City taking on Man City , we know that

its a live claim, so you need to learn how to defend it, and the umkomaas post on page 1 detailed a lot of what you need to do, even if its in writing due to this not being an online MCOL , plus his second post above

pranksters court guide is a good place to start

also consider that £18 defence claim service on parking cowboys too

Wrapper

Cheers guys.

So what is the worst possible outcome here? "the driver" ends up paying the fees?

And the best line of defense is "we don't know who was driving the vehicle"?

It seems pretty black and white to me. The driver was parked on a curb outside of marked spaces because there were no spaces due to them deciding to plonk machinery in the spaces and take up the car park.

They haven't had any loss of earnings, they haven't incurred damages - I don't get the issue.

Now what? I don't see it any other way?

Redx

if the driver was named, they are on the court papers and will be up before the court if its not settled "out of court"

if no driver was named, then its the RK they are taking to court (or the keeper) , but the same applies

the paperwork will cite who they are taking to court, normally the keeper if the driver wasnt named in any appeals

if they cite POFA 2012 and have adhered to it, they will use it against the keeper in court, or they will say that the keeper is most likely to be the driver, trying to convince the judge their claim is valid, plus any other legal arguments they can come up with

your defence will consist of legal arguments that say their claim is not valid, the keeper isnt liable, the signage was poor, there is no landowner contract in place (no locus standii) , NTK flaws etc

if the judge awards them the case, the judge will decide on damages and on costs, this total has to be paid within 28 days of there will be a CCJ and then bailiffs would be involved

if you win, its over with and you may claim costs as well , subject to any limits under the small claims rules