Seller lied on property questionaire - Electrical fire

smallblueplanet

sean1989 wrote: »

I cant excuse my lack of due diligence...I tried to read as much as i could but clearly have missed many "IMPORTANT" things.

I have been reading this thread with a certain morbid fascination, as buying a home is something most of us aspire to and is a big undertaking. So I just cannot understand *how* (especially as a FTB) you can have 'read as much as' you could but not read about getting a survey on the property? #justwondering

sean1989_2

smallblueplanet wrote: »

I have been reading this thread with a certain morbid fascination, as buying a home is something most of us aspire to and is a big undertaking. So I just cannot understand *how* (especially as a FTB) you can have 'read as much as' you could but not read about getting a survey on the property? #justwondering

The long story short - i believed i had agreed to have a survey done - a complaint has been raised over this - simply because i thought it was - albeit i didn't know much about them at the time - hindsight is a wonderful thing... i should not have just "expected" these things to mature and followed them up.

I understand where i have gone wrong. I really do - lessons learnt for future purchases.

But does this excuse the potential lie that lead to the events were talking about, its still something i am keen in pursuing - win or lose - should i need my day in court against the sellers then so be it

at least if things like this happen in the future (providing i win the case) - people will know they can fight it moving forward

Davesnave

sean1989 wrote: »

at least if things like this happen in the future (providing i win the case) - people will know they can fight it moving forward

Or they will learn that obtaining a judgement against persons with few tangible assets and a record of not paying is a rather hollow victory.

Sometimes, the smart thing to do is pick up the bits, shrug, and move on.

smallblueplanet

sean1989 wrote: »

The long story short - i believed i had agreed to have a survey done - a complaint has been raised over this - simply because i thought it was - albeit i didn't know much about them at the time - hindsight is a wonderful thing... i should not have just "expected" these things to mature and followed them up.

I understand where i have gone wrong. I really do - lessons learnt for future purchases.

But does this excuse the potential lie that lead to the events were talking about, its still something i am keen in pursuing - win or lose - should i need my day in court against the sellers then so be it

at least if things like this happen in the future (providing i win the case) - people will know they can fight it moving forward

I don't know enough about the 'legality' of the documents completed by the vendor to begin to answer that - but if you were selling and wanted to achieve a good price (and didn't think you were risking lives) wouldn't you have answered in a similar way? I think of the house I live in know and how I might answer similar questions - I might be 'vague' too. #shrug I might have expected my solicitor to flag up that the 'to follow' stuff had never arrived before I exchanged/completed however.


I gues in the end if the 'driveby' mortgage survey agreed with valuation you should at least not lose too much if at all when you come to sell, especially when you'll be able to say the property is newly rewired. #gottalookonthebrightside


Hope the outcome is a good one for you.

AdrianC

sean1989 wrote: »

the next issue we face and could potentially explore (but more than likely will not) is:
The seller is burdened with debt
3 charging orders on the property
constant nuisance calls from debt collectors
Was put on prepayment electric in 2007

<holds head in hands>
So what, exactly, do you think you're going to get out of them after chasing them around the courts...? (Other, of course, than a strong chance of a large legal bill when you lose)

sean1989_2

AdrianC wrote: »

<holds head in hands>
So what, exactly, do you think you're going to get out of them after chasing them around the courts...? (Other, of course, than a strong chance of a large legal bill when you lose)

1. Nothing saying we will lose
2. Nothing saying we will win
3. If we lose - lesson learnt
4. If we win - many people can see that you cannot lie during the sale of a property and this will benefit both sellers and buyers alike.
5. We will find a solicitor on a no win no fee basis (should we be claiming significant amounts or a rescind)
6. Small claims court at the expense of £80.00 ( should we claim the repairs + damages)

No legal bills there ..... and there's enough evidence to bring a claim - just depends on whether or not this would be upheld by a judge is all....

Not doing anything until i have heard back from all the companies involved.

Estate agents,
Mortgage advisor
Conveyancers
Our solicitors
Sellers solicitors

Once all the above have responded - ill then make my beef against the sellers ( if i can )

Sunshine62

Do you know if the house was sold previously and fell through for some reason? If so I am wondering if the Estate Agent knew about the problems with the house....just a thought.


I don't think its a good idea to have a house sale and all the things that go with it working primarily for those who work in partnerships (putting work their way)


I know when we bought our property and we had a few questions and investigations with regard the Homebuyers Report, they wanted to send someone who did such work for them, round that assessed items that came up on the survey, which we totally refused. Estate agents don't want to lose a sale so they have a vested interest in making sure the Buyer does not pull out for whatever reason, always best to get independent people into assess. We knew we had to have a rewire without a doubt. When we booked one the day after we moved in, it became apparent how desperate it was. In our opinion, there should have been a retainer on the mortgage, I think having a retainer on a mortgage brings home to buyers just how bad things could be. Even though they did away with the Mortgage Pack, I think there definitely should be some elements of it that should be kept.....those being Gas and Electric Reports by Accredited Tradesmen....things that can kill you overnight.

sean1989_2

Sunshine62 wrote: »

Do you know if the house was sold previously and fell through for some reason? If so I am wondering if the Estate Agent knew about the problems with the house....just a thought.

A very valid point - this hadn't crossed my mind...

I only know that the previous owners bought the property from the council in 2004 ( according to the land reg )

Anyone know if estate agents are at liberty to disclose such information?

Jhoney_2

sean1989 wrote: »

Yeah its very important that other readers certainly understand what needs to be done when purchasing a property. BEFORE purchasing a property!

I have dug out paperwork and it is slowly transpiring that there is just no survey completed at any level on the property. So the Solicitors may be lying - did they put the 'standard survey' reply in writing?

whilst i understand ( no really i do ) about the fact this is my responsibility to check this is done or request this to be done - at what stage did my solicitor not think to question why it had not or ask me to have it done - after all were buying a 1950's build house what could possibly go wrong.

At every stage - it is not his concern...

I cant excuse my lack of due diligence but for FTB's maybe there should be a little more clarity on whats happening and whats not, rather than a bombardment of paperwork all at once. I tried to read as much as i could but clearly have missed many "IMPORTANT" things.

You take the time to read the information sent to you. There is no executioner with a stopwatch baying for your signature - EA's aside as they do pester the pants off you when they smell money.:)

After now filtering through all the paperwork from countrywide i am starting to find a few things i that certainly need to be clarified ( much of this paperwork was received on the 1st October)
Was vital information withheld from you by sol/EA? Why the bumper pack post facto?

I still believe that the seller in this instance has tried to cover up very botched jobs by not declaring them - What if none of the problems were done by them e.g the previous vendor, but they had obliviously lived with it through the years - doesn't change that you could have really gotten hurt so fairly irrelevant to the crux of the issue - Get your survey, read it, react to it, do due diligence and liaise with the relevant professionals.

if countrywide to provide a statement saying that "electrical works is everything electrical" then i guess in the long run - it may be countrywide that find themselves facing the blame due to not being clear in their instructions.

Possibly, but limited to what could legally be expected of that prof in terms of reliance on their expertise I would think and any written evidence that gave you reason to believe differently.

the next issue we face and could potentially explore (but more than likely will not) is:
The seller is burdened with debt
3 charging orders on the property
we was billed in error for their last gas bill of £2k
constant nuisance calls from debt collectors ( i have worked in debt management and when companies leave their names - well aware of who they are)
Was put on prepayment electric in 2007 ( love how companies break data protection to allow us to know this)

They will not be able to repay you any damages until most the above are satisfied or you will recieve a drip fed token amount per month.

not saying this is true and is only speculation but - electrical fires that cause a full house to burn down can give a nice insurance claim.

...which they have failed to enact in over x years in order to claim?

It became apparent today(The neighbor told me) that they had moved out very quickly but returned every day to obtain post.

Cannot afford re-direct, but wanted their post. Evading creditors and debt collectors???

They vacated the premises months before completion - we was never informed of this. Could this have been the time the electrics were tampered with? who knows...
(?)

Daftyduck - your post was very descriptive and made much sense in several ways! i applaud you for your time and effort

sean1989 wrote: »

1. Nothing saying we will lose - a lot of circumstantial actually - and 2 hopes...
2. Nothing saying we will win - a few prayers, a lot of MSE posters and that trait most of us have of rooting for the underdog. But few facts on the face of it that foresee a win.
3. If we lose - lesson learnt . Fair play to you, but that will be another rather costly one. I have to admit I hope that I am wrong here. You've been through more than enough already.

4. If we win - many people can see that you cannot lie during the sale of a property and this will benefit both sellers and buyers alike.:wall:

5. We will find a solicitor on a no win no fee basis (should we be claiming significant amounts or a rescind):shocked::think: :idea: :shhh:
6. Small claims court at the expense of £80.00 ( should we claim the repairs + damages)

No legal bills there ..... and there's enough evidence to bring a claim - just depends on whether or not this would be upheld by a judge is all....

Not doing anything until i have heard back from all the companies involved.

Estate agents,
Mortgage advisor
Conveyancers
Our solicitors
Sellers solicitors

Once all the above have responded - ill then make my beef against the sellers ( if i can )

_pale_ :doh::silenced: :whistle:

May I just add that the judge will want court cost payment upfront - the vendors can't/won't pay and they won't have any confidence that you will ensure it's done! - just so you don't think i'm entirely humourless.

Sunshine62

I don't know Sean, but if a previous survey had been done and the buyers pulled out, they would definitely been aware of it as would a solicitor.... that's where malpractice can sometimes come into play - collusion. You may be able gleen something by checking to see whether the house was marketed slightly earlier, often these properties are still on the internet, greyed out, pictures and all. The only problem is if the agent has changed. I really think you need to look into it from that angle. Also if a previous survey had been conducted, the Seller would have been aware that the house was a death trap.


Good luck by the way, I really feel for you.... to some extent I think you have been badly advised or at least not properly advised. Another reason why best to get an Independent Mortgage Advisor rather than the one at the Estate Agents who again have a vested interest in getting the sale through for their own commission as well as their mate the Estate Agent.