‘Tory, Tory, Tory, scum, scum, scum’

Moby

Generali wrote: »

John McDonnell stated that insurrection was a legitimate agent of change.

Let's ask Martin what he thinks insurrection means. :money:

Oh dear, he's just doing the spinning thing. Let's try Google then. Oi Google, what does insurrection mean you great big mess of stalking adverts?



Thanks Google!

Apparently the word comes from late Latin, 'insurgere'.

Do you really think that the Shadow Chancellor should be encouraging a violent uprising against the Government? It doesn't sound very democratic. I like democracy personally but I also, as a democrat, support the rights of those that would like to speak in support of violent opposition to the state as you seem to do.

I agree with John McDonnell, context is everything. I don't happen to believe it is necessary just yet in this country but in some places at some time I would have turned to violence ie.......... if I had been catholic living on the Falls Road in the 70's for instance. You seem to have a very simplistic view of 'democracy'. Looking at the political class...it is patently obvious that we have a very flawed democracy because power is clearly concentrated in an establishment elite. Preferment, nepotism, buggins turn, networking, financial resources, public school network all play a part. The disempowered tend not to have said avenues of access to power open to them .......so they respond through protest and violence. Violent protest is a actually a sign that democracy is not working or is under pressure. .....think canaries and coal mines. It could be a sign of things to come.....like in the 80's!

Moby

Generali wrote: »

Are we playing nut-job poker? I raise you a Pol Pot and have a Stalin in the hole.

Ok here's a royal flush...... Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Tojo, Chiang Kai Shek;)

Generali

Moby wrote: »

like in the 80's!

And what happened in the 1980s? More people voting Tory.

And in the 1990s? A Tory Government that really never should have been able to win followed by Blair (the only Labour PM elected for 40 years and counting) then two terms of a Tory PM again.

The English tried insurrection in the C17th and ended up with a quarter of the adult population dead. Unsurprisingly they aren't keen to try it again.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Ok here's a royal flush...... Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Tojo, Chiang Kai Shek;)

Mao killed more than all those put together. :money:

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

With respect, I don't think it's got anything at all to do with Corbyn.

Demo's have been going on like this for ages.

There was one on the 8th July and another on the 21st July against these tax credit cuts to name just a couple.

As for being egged, John Prescott, a labour MP also got egged. Jim Murphy was egged up in Scotland.

As for the "poor scum" stuff - true, you are not going to find that in a protest type situation. Then again, the rich appear to have less to protest on the streets about and generally go straight for the jugular of the locals and councils.

However, the rich get into their fair share of scuffles. The fox hunting demonstrations are enough to show that - and yes, you do have the "poor scum" type analogies in those situations. Pro hunting protestors also broke into and "stormed" the commons, physically assaulting a doorman and wrestling him to the ground in the process. These were tory supporting lads against labours fox hunting ban.

So I think it's unfair to suggest it's a thing of the left.

Post of the thread Graham, and the only reply worth reading.

Fella

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How many years ago? Were they leaders when they said it?

You see that it doesn't reflect well on them if they advocated change until they were elected leaders?

Graham_Devon

Fella wrote: »

You see that it doesn't reflect well on them if they advocated change until they were elected leaders?

I was just replying to the post that said "a leader said X" and pointing out that a leader didn't say X at all.

I couldn't actually be bothered to find out in what context it was said in, but that would also be important. In some cases, violence is the only resort that's left - hence why we go to war.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

I agree with John McDonnell, context is everything. I don't happen to believe it is necessary just yet in this country but in some places at some time I would have turned to violence ie.......... if I had been catholic living on the Falls Road in the 70's for instance. You seem to have a very simplistic view of 'democracy'. Looking at the political class...it is patently obvious that we have a very flawed democracy because power is clearly concentrated in an establishment elite. Preferment, nepotism, buggins turn, networking, financial resources, public school network all play a part. The disempowered tend not to have said avenues of access to power open to them .......so they respond through protest and violence. Violent protest is a actually a sign that democracy is not working or is under pressure. .....think canaries and coal mines. It could be a sign of things to come.....like in the 80's!

You don't know the first thing about the life of Catholics in the falls road in the 70s

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How many years ago? Were they leaders when they said it?

You can ask Martin, or consult google if you wish.



Nope - It's a good thing as a shadow chancellor then, he's never stated that.

According to newspapers ranging from the Torygraph to the Grauniad he called for insurrection at least three times between 2010 and 2012. It's not like it was back when he was a student or something and so could be excused a little naivety.

He's getting what he called for in the disruption of the Tory Party conference. I can't see his band of thugs playing well with Middle England at the ballot box. You may excuse him but I suspect most will not.