‘Tory, Tory, Tory, scum, scum, scum’

Graham_Devon

Fella wrote: »

But as I say, with Corbyn in charge the extremists think they have tacit approval of their vile actions.

I don't know. I can see your reasoning, but there is no real evidence for it. Groups of people have been doing this for ages, Corbyn in charge or not.

I think theres a danger of just pointing at Corbyn for everything that happens now and somehow linking events back to him.

The key for me is this: If Corbyn is responsible in part for these demonstrations, who was responsible for the demonstrations on the same subject before this?

That sounds a bit vague & conspiracy-theory-esque. But on balance I would prefer that anyone went "for the jugular of the locals and councils" than caused riots etc, which is what we'll probably end up with.

What I mean is that richer folk probably have less to protest about in the first place. They are less reliant on the state by default. The minimum wage, tax credits, disability benefits are far less likely to effect them. A) they are far less likely to be effected by tax credits and minimum wages and when it comes to universal benefits, they have much larger shoulders and sometimes will likely not even notice the cuts.

So overall, the wealthy or more comfortable are far less likely to take part in protests simply due to the fact they are far less likely to be effected.

Someone I know is very wealthy. He is also disabled. He has taken part in the mobility car scheme. No problems so far. However, he has 3 other cars. if the scheme were scrapped tommorow, sure, he'd lose a car, but he'd still have 3 others. Meanwhile, down the road, you have a disabled person who is reliant on that car to get around.

Who's going to be effected the most? Both lose a car, but only the person of lesser means loses not only a car, but his mobility and social life.

Due to this, the rich protest in a different way, in a much more local way. You may find well to do people doing a march through a village and over fields to stop building. You may find them protesting against climate change type stuff.

They protest - but over different things, and these different things call for a different style of protest. but overall, they wealthy simply wont be effected as much by government changes.

On saying that, get rid of some of the pensioner universal benefits and I reckon you'd see pensioners of all means protesting by various methods. The biggest fear for the politicians though is what I referred to as the jugular - the loss of their vote.

CLAPTON

the protesters weren't poor people but well educated middle class people (like Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott) who are subsidised by their parents and us poor tax payers.

Conrad

OLD LABOUR ROD LIDDLE'S VIEW OF THESE ANTI CAPITALIST DRONES;


It must be said that none of those who attended the Cereal Killer Caf! protest appeared to be horny-handed sons of toil

There was Adam Clifford, a performance artist, yoga teacher and poet whose most recent work is entitled ‘Android Death Queer’: please — hurry, hurry, while stocks last. And Simon Elmer (not present at the march, but a supporter: probably at home nanny-watching, I would guess), who is a former professor of that most resolutely blue-collar of disciplines, art history. And Class War’s current star, the henna-haired perpetual student Lisa McKenzie, who is currently a ‘research fellow’ at the London School of Economics, having been in one or another useless branch of academia for the past 15 years, paid for by the impoverished taxpayer.


You could tell these furious monkeys were not working-class because of their Stalinist adherence to any and every manifestation of fatuous identity politics, especially fatuous gender-based identity politics. Their next protest, for example, is against the Jack the Ripper museum in London, on the grounds that it glorifies violence against women — which is a bit like saying that Auschwitz glorifies anti-Semitism. Most working-class people find identity politics an anathema, perhaps because they have imbibed insufficient quantities of Marcuse and Gramsci and Habermas and are therefore not, in a Marxist sense, fully conscious.


The real working class think these people are very stupid and irrelevant — merely another manifestation of the asinine politically correct liberal elite that predates upon them.

Class War loathes — with a commendable vigour — the capital’s middle-class liberal elite.

But Class War doesn’t get that the happy-clappy multicultural ethos of middle-class London is another factor which has driven the working class away.

It is undoubtedly wonderful to have world food festivals on your doorstep and pop-up restaurants serving Ethiopian tapas or Bengali sushi — but the middle classes don’t have to live with the day-to-day reality of this multiculturalism: in the schools, in the streets, living right next door.


The working classes don’t get the cheap nannies and plumbers and taxis and cleaners; they can’t afford that stuff, anyway. They just lose their jobs as a consequence or see their incomes halved by a secondary labour force which is there for the sole benefit of the affluent. And they get the muzzein’s wail and the street harassment and the crime and the annihilation of their culture as a sort of bonus.


Class War has no answer to this. Bring it up with them and you’ll get called a racist with just as much absolutist venom as you would by a well-heeled Corbynista in Muswell Hell, demanding the country take ever larger amounts of immigration to perpetuate the problem, all in the name of magnanimity and internationalism, when it is really just economic self-interest. In a sense, then, Class War is simply the provisional wing of the liberal elite; self-hating and deluded. Sort of Emily Thornberry MP, with added spray paint.

Nor am I certain that a small caf! selling cornflakes is the place where the revolution should begin, if it is to begin at all. How about Redcar instead, where the closure of the local steelworks has cost the area — a very poor area — 1,700 jobs? Heard anything from Class War about Redcar? Corbyn, meanwhile, made a genuflection in the direction of Teesside, a week late, as if he had just heard of the place. Pretend lefties, all of them.

Graham_Devon

Jeremy Hunt doesn't seem to have helped the debate today.

At the tory conference, he has suggested that the tax credit cuts will (quote from the telegraph, and if he's getting grilled by the telegraph that's never a good start) "Teach people to work harder".

His full speech included "are we going to be a country that is prepared to work hard, in the way that asian economies are prepared to work hard".

Silly comment really, considering there is concern over the workers rights in Asia.

Sums up a good reason why people are protesting. It's not just about the cuts, it's about this idea that the poor are only poor because they don't work hard enough.

So the question would be, what's "hard enough"? Presumably a courier delivery driver working 5am to 5pm 6 days a week isn't hard enough? Which leads us to another question? What can they do to work harder?

But he hadn't finished - oh no. Hunt then went on to suggest those who claim tax credits lacked self respect.

“Dignity is not just about how much money you have got ... officially children are growing up in poverty if there is an income in that family of less than £16,500. What the Conservatives say is how that £16,500 is earned matters.

“It matters if you are earning that yourself, because if you are earning it yourself you are independent and that is the first step towards self-respect. If that £16,500 is either a high proportion or entirely through the benefit system you are trapped. It is about pathways to work, pathways to independence ... It is about creating a pathway to independence, self-respect and dignity.”

As for the point in the OP

Can you imagine, even for one second, the outrage there would be if a bunch of rich people surrounded a labour candidate singing "poor scum" then threw stuff at him?

No you can't....

Didn't take long to get something close!

caronoel

CLAPTON wrote: »

There is no record of John Major praising the bullets and the bombs of the IRA.

Anyone with modicum of good will, education and intelligence will know that adversaries that had to compromise over the centuries.

This is a man who lied to the House of Commons telling them that face-to-face talks with the IRA 'would turn my stomach'

Now that is Tory scum

.string.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Jeremy Hunt .......
Didn't take long to get something close!

Well not really close, you're fishing unconvincingly for an insult there where none, was intended.

.string.

caronoel wrote: »

This is a man who lied to the House of Commons telling them that face-to-face talks with the IRA 'would turn my stomach'

Now that is Tory scum

If I'd have had to talk to IRA terrorists at that time it would turn my stomach too, but I'd have done it if I thought something good would come of it.

From their perspective no doubt the IRA had similar queasy stomachs which they overcame.

And something good did come of it.

CLAPTON

caronoel wrote: »

This is a man who lied to the House of Commons telling them that face-to-face talks with the IRA 'would turn my stomach'

Now that is Tory scum

the comparison is between Major, who may have had to compromise his position to achieve a measure of peace in NI,
with Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott who were long term supporters of the IRA and haven't, as far as I am aware, ever confronted the IRA about the killings.

But what's your point?

are you a supporter of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott and an IRA fellow traveller or lamenting that Major compromised?

thor

Graham_Devon wrote: »

But he hadn't finished - oh no. Hunt then went on to suggest those who claim tax credits lacked self respect.

Well that's rich coming from a Tory MP!
What an odious bunch of self serving, devious money grabbers these politicians are. I suppose they believe they work hard for the wages given to them from the state coffers.

Generali

To me it seems that the protesters did exactly what John McDonnell said they should. He seems to be under the impression that "insurrection" is a legitimate part of the democratic process. Presumably he will feel the same way when people are throwing things at him and threatening to rape his colleague.