MSE News: 1.2m UK vehicles to be 'corrected' in Volkswagen emissions scandal

footyguy

Bollotom wrote: »

When the software is remedied would the insurance companies not up their premiums, would one of these cars now pass the emissions for MoT and would there be detriment to the vehicle itself? Lots of answers needed and maybe VW are using this as the lesser of more than one evil. Goodness knows what else is wrong with the cars. I hope our toothless government give VW some supervisory team to check on all aspects. :cool:

I'm not really sure you understand what Volkswagen have been caught doing. I tried to explain it in simple terms in post#5
(at least as I understand it currently)

Changing this will not adversely affect the engine itself (and even if it did, insurance doesn't cover that so it won't affect the premium)

There has been some suggestion that power and/or torque may be reduced - not sure how correct that is, but it would support the notion of increased fuel consumption.
But reducing power or torque will only reduce performance, so if anything that should decrease insurance (but this is all hypothetical, and I suspect insurance will not be affected)

Or is there some other cause you think would increase insurance premiums?

footyguy

Johno100 wrote: »

Yes, but you can have a recall that is not a safety recall.

Really?

I never knew that. All recalls (of vehicles in the UK) I thought were safety related
http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/help/voluntaryrecallsystem.htm

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302389/manufacturers-guide-to-recalls-in-the-uk-automotive-sector.pdf

etc

Even VWs own website suggests they only issue recall notices for safety related matters
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/recalls


There are other processes, like campaigns, to carry out non-safety related repairs/revisions, but these are not called recalls and are not monitored by the appropriate authorities, afaik.

giraffe69

Quite amazing all this disinformation. £2500 fines, prosecutions, drops in resale values, death, pestilence etc
Although there are uncertainties about how many cars, which cars and what is to be done it already seems completely clear there will be no safety recall but there may be a recall to fix the software. I imagine as and when you get the letter you will be able to delay it until your next service so you won't have to be without your vehicle.
There is no evidence at all that it will adversely affect insurance premiums, indeed at least one insurer has specifically said this.
There may be some inconvenience and even possibly a drop in resale value but I think some people are getting rather too excited and inaccurately so. Keep calm and carry on!

Retrogamer

Meanwhile people still remove cats, DPFs, blank off EGR valves and remap their engines.

Johno100

footyguy wrote: »

There are other processes, like campaigns, to carry out non-safety related repairs/revisions, but these are not called recalls and are not monitored by the appropriate authorities, afaik.

And that is what is likely to be.

Call it what you want, campaign, repair, revision, amendment, re-assessment, even upgrade. It will not be a safety recall.

Johnmcl7

footyguy wrote: »

Whilst this is a concern, until we know the technical details of the revision to be made, we cannot know for sure.
Presumably it will be a recalibration.

As I understand it, the main issue is that the VWs affected use a urea based chemical known as 'AdBlue' that is used to treat the exhaust fumes, to make them less toxic in the atmosphere.
However, the chemical is not cheap. My neighbourt told me the Audi dealer charges £75 to refill the Adblue chamber.

Currently, the Adblue is only injected when the vehicle is under specific test conditions (this is why it has become known as a defeat function). The current container full lasts the length of the service interval with the existing calibration. If the calibration is now changed to use the Adblue in all driveing, it will need refilling much more often.


If my synopsis is correct (even if that is just part of the story), then the running cost of the vehicle will be significantly increased, which can only lead to a lower resale value, imho.

No, the problem is the affected VW engines don't have the adblue system (the VW name for urea). They claimed they could meet the tight Nox emissions requirement without fitting adblue to the engines which would save them money and make the cars more appealing as the adblue system and potential hassles can be offputting. Now it turns out the way they were passing the emissions limits was by having the car behave differently when testing.

In Europe the situation is different because the affected engines are certified to the EU5 spec which isn't that tough on Nox emissions and the cars wouldn't need the adblue system to pass whereas the Eu6 spec is much tougher on Nox emissions (the limit is less than half of the EU5 spec). Therefore the cars will likely still pass the EU5 Nox emissions test without the defeat device whereas in the US they won't meaning it's likely VW are going to have to run the cars with the same parameters while under testing (possibly leading to poorer fuel economy and/or lower performance) or fit an adblue system.

At the moment, it's not known what affect has been had on European vehicles where it's CO2 that's been the focus largely and not Nox until more recently with the lower Nox limit for EU6 vehicles. There's the added difficulty that it's been shown recently how inaccurate the testing is with most EU6 tested cars (not just VW) failing to meet the emissions limits in reality and also producing far higher CO2 than their original test showed. If the affected engines were EU6 then potentially there would be a much bigger issue (and there may still be) as those are the ones with the tighter nox requirements and if turns out VW have been cheating those and the cars can't meet the emissions requirements otherwise then that could be a big issue for owners. Right now, there's no suggestion that's the case.

John

Kite2010

I suspect my (£20 a year tax) 2011 Fabia TDi will be invited back to the dealership to be "fixed".

Norman_Castle

Johno100 wrote: »

The vehicles are perfectly safe, or are you looking at from a tree huggers point of view?.

Diesel emissions cause breathing and respiratory problems. Nothing to do with "tree hugging".

C_Mababejive

Once they have been "corrected" then HM Government may then correct the annual VED for these cars thus finally ending the lie of the clean diesel engine..

Norman_Castle

Are VWs generally in lower emission bands than similar vehicles from other makers?. If not and they've done this to lower the apparent emissions how have other manufacturers met the emission targets?.