Gifted Children

FBaby

The whole talk was a real eye opener for me & after we started using effort based praised as opposed to ability based saw positive results in the way ds approaches his studies.

But again, I think that can go in either direction, just like ability praised approach. A child who is constantly praised for his efforts could develop a false sense of his worth when it comes to results and that could lead to disappointment in lack of being able to achieve to the expectation, very much like the child praised for their ability.

I think the issue is about how much praise a child receives rather than what they are praised for. I really think the best approach is to praise proportionally and appropriately.

I also think that the best thing to do is to be honest with our children. DS might have a particular ability for golf. He is rubbish at football! However, he loves football and think golf is only ok, so he is much more dedicated to football and that's fine. He is realistic about his ability though and will say himself that he is not very good at football because he is a slow runner, but he doesn't care, he enjoys both the sport and the atmosphere so that's what he has chosen to do regularly.

Better_Days

FBaby wrote: »

Absolutely, but that applies to ALL children, and gifted children SHOULD be able to be themselves too.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I do think you are being a tad defensive here (especially with the capitals ). I've re-read my post - the relevant part is here:

The other thing is that how parents deal with their gifted children, their siblings, wider family and family dynamics. Children need the space to be themselves and explore their own strengths, not be constantly compared with their siblings.

and I can't see where I was suggesting that gifted children should not be given the space to explore themselves. I said 'children' meaning all children in the family, not 'children, unless they are gifted'!

It can be incredibly tedious listening to parents boast about their children. I once worked in an open plan office and was on a block of 4 desks. Two were parents, and there was me and another chap whose wife had difficulty conceiving. I can safely say that the parents spent 90% of the time talking about the children and trying to outdo each other regarding their achievements. I was stuck on that block of desk for years, and it is not a time I remember fondly.

I worked with another parent who talked almost exclusively about her children. The son, at 7 was so gifted she boasted he was going to be a rocket scientist!

What my SIL says about my eldest nephew is at complete variance with reality. In some ways it is rather sad that she feels the need to exaggerate his abilities rather than to be happy with him as he is. He has SEN, is 13, is unable to read and write and his emotional age is about 3. But if you hadn't met him, you would have no idea from how his mother describes him.

Boasting and exaggeration by parents is why the assertion that a child is 'gifted' can be treated with scepticism.

I think what puts some peoples backs up is the (possibly unintended) implication that just because a child is 'gifted' they are better or of more 'value' than less 'gifted' children. Those of you with gifted children - think what other parents hear when you say 'little Johnny is gifted at maths'. The other parents may hear that you think that their child is of less value because they are not so good at maths. How do you define 'success' and 'worth' in your family? Academic ability, sporting ability, emotional intelligence, effort and persistence, emotional balance, being grateful for what you have, 'kindness towards others'? How much are you projecting those definitions on children from other families?

I like quidsy's approach

Why do you need to defend it though? No one forces you or other parents to get into it with others. I actually can't think of a situation where I need to justify my sons natural abilities to the point of defense. He is just good at some things & not so good at others. If someone asks, I tell them, they can tell me their kids achievements too & I will be pleased for them but I don't use it as a topic starter.

FBaby

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I do think you are being a tad defensive here (especially with the capitals ).

Maybe, but you seem to be very critical of any parent with possibly clever children. Do you actually know anyone with a very clever child who might be right about what they 'boast' about?

I think what puts some peoples backs up is the (possibly unintended) implication that just because a child is 'gifted' they are better or of more 'value' than less 'gifted' children.

I could say that it is now you who is being defensive. It's not because you shout the success of your children that you consider others less valued. If you read back, I actually gave the example of a child who was under-valued by her own parents when I admired her sales skills for her age.

Boasting and exaggeration by parents is why the assertion that a child is 'gifted' can be treated with scepticism

To be honest, I much rather hear a parent's pride of their child than a parent who can never recognise any worth in their child. I remember perfectly well the time my mum (who was much cleverer than I, must jump a generation!) told me how proud she was of my school results. I was never top of the class, and it is not her words that got to me but the expression in her eyes. That day, I felt I could climb any mountains and it gave me the drive to keep going.

Those of you with gifted children - think what other parents hear when you say 'little Johnny is gifted at maths'. The other parents may hear that you think that their child is of less value because they are not so good at maths

I would conclude that the mum of the other child has self-esteem issues if she thinks that this statement means that her own child is under valued. One of my friend's child who started at a sport at the same time than DD (who was showing some potential at the time) has now made the junior national team. When she told me, I was truly delighted for her and her DD and didn't once think that it undermined my child. The fact is that her DD is and always has been much more talented than DD. I can see it, DD can see it, but why would that make her feel less valued?

How do you define 'success' and 'worth' in your family?

Success in my family is reaching the goals you set for yourself whatever they are, however, success is not everything, the learning gained through the journey is often just as important. Worth? Not a notion we discuss in our family.

Better_Days

FBaby - we clearly are not going to agree on this.

I stand by what I said. I don't think I am being defensive, simply stating what I have seen from my own observation, as you have from yours. I'm not critical of parents of 'gifted' children, per se, but I do not like to hear parents boast about their children's achievements, trying to outdo each other left right and centre.

I'd add that it is not necessary to shout the success of your children, as some parents do ad nauseum - and parents that do may well have self esteem problems themselves, and live their lives through their children's achievements.

There is a balance to be had between 'shouting the success of a child' and undervaluing their achievements. Many parents over emphasise the former. My mother did both, with different children, and it was not helpful to either child.

I would conclude that the mum of the other child has self-esteem issues if she thinks that this statement means that her own child is under valued.

Yes, you might conclude that, but some may well not. I was asking you to look outside your own views and consider the suggestion from a wider perspective. If parents go on about how talented their child is, logically the other children are less talented, and possibly not so valued. What I am talking about is the effect that parents of gifted children have on parents and children around them when they boast of the child's achievements. Why deliberately make others feel their children have achieved less by boasting like this? And there is a big difference between being proud and supportive of your child and boasting.

From listening to parents the one-upmanship can really get out of hand - and to me it seems so pointless. Each child achieves what s/he achieves - why boast about it and try to out do each other?

ETA: What I am trying to get at here is not the relative level of achievements of children, but how their parents express those achievements to others, and the effect that has on others.

michbright

I have a child who's quite gifted musically and at primary school she was put in the gifted and talented group for literacy. However, she is quite shy and I have therefore not pushed her too much. We have always read to her and stretched her mind by reading books we felt she was capable of understanding. With regards to music, she can play the piano (and other instruments) by ear - in fact her piano teacher has told me in her 30 years of teaching, she's never seen a child get as far as she has simply with playing by ear. She has also just been put into the gifted class for music in high school, having only started Year 7 2 weeks ago.

Her 6 year old sister was assessed as being well above the expected level for her year group in music at the end of year 1, which is a fantastic achievement considering she is much younger than most of her class. Her 9 year old sister has also been assessed as being well above her peers in both literacy and maths.

I myself was classed as gifted at the age of 5. I was assessed as having the intelligence and intellect of a 10 year old at that stage and my mother had the choice to send me to a school for the gifted or keep me in a mainstream school. She went with the latter and I am eternally grateful for that. I now have a law degree, but choose to be at home with my children as I feel that is where I am supposed to be at this point in my life.

My advice would be to not put too much pressure on the nursery. As others have said, if your child has the natural ability, they will not lose it but pushing too hard too soon may have the opposite effect. If he is good at maths, why not try getting him a little piano or keyboard. There is a proven link between mathematical ability and musical ability, so he may be musical. That's a fun activity and can grow with him if he is so inclined. Thats what we've always done. As regards reading, try reading books that you think may stimulate him more but don't make it a chore. We now only read stories at bedtime and when they were at pre-school, we used to read the books they sent home with the children.

michbright

I just wanted to add that all 3 of my children go to state schools and are doing incredibly well. My oldest actually achieves more than a good friend of hers who is at a private boarding school.

FBaby

Yes, you might conclude that, but some may well not. I was asking you to look outside your own views and consider the suggestion from a wider perspective.

Actually, I don't feel we really disagree, we are just looking at it from a different perspective. The thing is you think I should look at it from the perspective of the parent whose child is not over-achieving, but you don't seem to be prepared to consider things from their perspective.

All in all, I do think we probably agree that we should respect other people's feelings. It's about finding the right balance. I never mention my kids' achievements to people I don't know well, but I will mention it to close friends/colleagues because I do believe that they are truly happy for me just like I will genuinely be for them if their children (or anyone else close to them) will accomplish something they are proud of.

I personally am not too bothered with people who boast about their kids (or husband, or the size of their house, or their holidays...). My experience is that those who boast the most are often those who will be first to congratulate others. As for those who boast for attention only, I find them amusing.

Robisere

I have a son and daughter in their mid-forties. Each has a son and daughter. Son's daughter is 19 and his son 16, almost 17. Neither of them is gifted, in fact grandson is dyslexic, but he has gifted hands, in that he wants to be an engineer and has been stripping, repairing and rebuilding Stationary engines for shows, with his dad, since he was 12. He worked one day a week as work experience at a local engineering company and 3 different line foremen want him as an apprentice. Now he is at college, studying Mechanical Engineering 3 days a week and still working 2 days at the engineering works. He is a large, quiet, happy lad with lots of good mates. His sister has passed a college course with top marks, studying Hospitality & Catering, and is now working at a very popular local restaurant. She is a beautiful, popular girl with many friends and our son has brought them up alone since they were 2 and 4 years old.

Our daughter has a 21 year old son and a 10 year old daughter. Our eldest grandson is officially a genius, having been Mensa-tested and shown off the scale. He was on his way to University, but in the last year at college he passed all the necessary exams, thanks to a fine college tutor, that he would have taken at Uni. He is now a valued member at a local company and the owner has stated to me that he could not manage without him, as our grandson has invented and installed 3 systems that only he knows how to operate. His sister shows all the signs of being as bright, albeit in different directions, and is also a tomboy and an all-action girl. She took the 11 Plus a year earlier and is waiting for the results.

I tell this story to prove one thing about children: they are all individuals and each has different educational wants and needs. Every child is different and every child may develop in different ways. Some develop later and some may even lose the high achievement that they once made easily.

However, each one deserves the chance to be a child for as long as they want to be a child. There is no difference in the pride I feel for each of my grandchildren and I love them all, having made a point of holding each as soon as I could get to them when they were born, and I do whatever I can for them now.

Lunar_Eclipse

Better_Days wrote: »

Children maybe described as gifted when in fact they are above the average level of intelligence. Or clever, when in fact they are average. Or indeed, because children develop at different rates, are 'good at x for their age'.

a parents assessment of their child's abilities is not always accurate. Also, I suspect the terms gifted and talented are often used in a wider way, rather than the more narrow educational definition.
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Parents do not assess whether their child is gifted or not. It's an externally generated 'label', usually given by their school.

I have never heard parents calling their gifted child gifted either. It doesn't happen.

Above average intelligence is nowhere near gifted. Clever and extremely bright are also not (necessarily) gifted, though they are words I might use in real life in rare circumstances.

The assumed interpretation of gifted is one that is measured, via standard tests. There is debate as to the value of the tests and whether intelligence can actually be measured, but there is some correlation between academic perfomance and intelligence. That is all it is used for.

Gifted refers to academic ability, talented is for non-academic strengths such as music, art, sport etc.

I rather suspect the boastful parents that irk you do not have gifted children!

Savvy_Sue

quidsy wrote: »

(Quite a few hands shot up, not mine, my ds art is terrible, he gets a encouraging, hmm, that's...nice? lol)

Followed in my case by "what is it?"

I had to admire DS1's cleverness, when I found out about it. In Year 7, they had to do a pencil drawing of a shoe. We went out and left the boys with a babysitter, came home and I was astonished by this shoe: DS1 hated art, had never enjoyed colouring, was famous for scribbling over things with black crayon when they didn't end up the way he wanted them to. But here was this astonishing drawing of a shoe, which really looked like a shoe.

It was much much later that I discovered that our babysitter was doing A level art, and had 'helped' DS1 with his homework, by doing it for him. :rotfl:

I did tell him off, but as I say it was a bit late by the time I found out ...