Here we can all be heard for a little while. Part 2

Pyxis

calleyw wrote: »

He even talked about moving in with his mum. she was going to move to the town he lives in before she got ill. I thought was a bit a strange.

I wonder how he has ever held down 3 long term relationships and had children as well. With the behavior that I have seen from him.

Yours

Calley

well, those relationships failed! Sounds like he's a serial failer. So you're just number 4, or whatever.

But if he's an ex, and a sort of non-ex because there wasn't really a relationship, then I think the suggestion to delete all contact is sound advice.
Sounds like you're dangling on a string, and the hope of 'what might have been' stops you from cutting the string. It might also be stopping you from moving forward, as you may still be hankering after a relationship with him.

(((((()))))))~~~~~~~~~(((((((())))))))





Well, there is wifi here! . Short gap now in a very, very full programme! Just had a lecture on plainchant followed by a wonderful recital by the choir of Magdalene College Chapel. Will be going to dinner soon, in a College hall, followed by a concert by the Tallis Scholars! Bliss!
Funny how one's tastes in music can lurch from plainchant to rock'n'roll, from renaissance music to forties' swing, and from baroque music to New Wave! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The journey here was a pain. Signal problems meant a delay, then my connecting train was cancelled, so had to wait for the next one, then the platform was changed, so I had to lug my case up and then down the steep flights of steps as the lift wasn't working. Cancelling the train mean I lost my reserved seat in the process, and the next train was very crowded. Luckily I managed to get a seat though.

Anyway, ...and breathe!

calleyw

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Yeah, but if it was meant to be, it would have been

Yes I know.

But I am still partly to blame. Mainly because I lack confidence and suffer with anxiety. I worry if people like me. So if they don't reply to my text/phone calls then I think that I have done something wrong and they hate me.

I know its strange. And its not everyone just men. Its the same thing with on-line sites be it dating or chatting sites.

I think if people don't reply then they don't like me any more. I don't seem to think logically about it.

With the phone I don't seem to think that

1)Busy
2)no charge
3)no signal
4)left it somewhere
etc

If they don't reply then I start to get really anxious and then after a while I will shoot off another just ever so slighty b1tchy message and then another couple then try and phone them and then text to answer the phone. Then give up.

Screaming down the phone is not a good thing either or just turning up to talk to them. That is out of frustration. I have never been about getting my own way so not sure why I have been doing this.

With websites if I think that they are no longer interested in chatting I delete and block them.

I know this all sounds very childish and I know it is and have hard time stopping myself.

The problem my ex is that I always knew he would be back. But that has now exploded in my face. And I am to blame.

I just don't know how to stop myself doing this. As being very truthful its really not me at all. I am normally a very placid calm person and it takes a lot to wind me up.

I wonder if I am suffering from an issue due to modern technology that we expect people to be in constant contact at all times.

Until I can get this under control I can't think about another relationship!!!!

Yours

Calley

Waves_and_Smiles

Eeeeek! Ok, that's a stressful start, Pyxis! Hopefully the next few days will be full of lots of tiring fun! Enjoy dinner and the concert! So glad that you have wifi because I would miss you!

Calley, what you are describing is panic. You become very anxious and then rational thinking is very hard to manage. You aren't a bad person, you aren't a nuisance or anything else you may think along similar lines, you are scared. Have you tried writing yourself a list of reasons why phones might not be answered or people might be busy? It is a CBT technique that I was taught, having something physical in your hand to read can be a lot more convincing than keeping these thoughts in your head. I do understand because I used to be very similar, I would panic if someone didn't reply to me or if someone was late or cancelled seeing me. I saw it as immediate rejection and that I was losing their friendship. In my case it all came down to very low self-esteem that I couldn't believe that anyone would want to talk to me in the first place, and if they did that it was only a matter of time before they realised how horrid I was and went away.

It is possible to overcome it, I am lot better now, I just feel a mild panic. It takes a little work and metaphorically sitting on your hands when you feel abandoned but eventually it does get easier to rationalise the situations.

calleyw

Waves_and_Smiles wrote: »

I would panic if someone didn't reply to me or if someone was late or cancelled seeing me. I saw it as immediate rejection and that I was losing their friendship. In my case it all came down to very low self-esteem that I couldn't believe that anyone would want to talk to me in the first place, and if they did that it was only a matter of time before they realised how horrid I was and went away.

Exactly how I feel.

I don't seem to have a major issue with family, my SIL and my old boss as I just know they take for ever to reply. It seems to be people outside of that group.

Yours

Calley

Waves_and_Smiles

I totally understand, it's people you don't know well who you haven't built trust with yet. You know others take forever to reply so it's fine. New people who might be leaving you feel entirely different and it scares you, just as it did me. I promise you that it's possible to work through it so that the panic doesn't take over and make you do things you'll regret, it does take time though and a lot of arguing with yourself and convincing yourself that you are worthwhile.

I still have the feelings sometimes and boundaries don't come easily to me. Sometimes I have to force myself to stand back and stop contacting people even if only to ask if I have done something wrong. Sometimes I misjudge it and think I have contacted someone too often so stay quiet and then they worry if I am ok! I don't think it ever comes naturally to people like us but we can learn to rationalise our fears.

Please don't hate yourself for this though. You act out of fear, not malice. It doesn't make you a bad person, just one who doesn't like themselves very much.

calleyw

WaS,

Thank you so much, I am tears because I get it but just feel so stupid.

I have always been shy and suffered with low self esteem. I had counseling for a while and we seemed to get to the point where we seemed to pin point it from when I was a child.

Penguin-just personal stuff

I am middle child or three. And the only girl. Because of the back ground of farming in my family. Girls are not highly rated we are just cooks and bottle washers and child carers. Spending hrs on our own while husbands are off working long and odd hrs.

When I left school I wanted to do forestry but could not get a place. Not sure if it was because I was girl or not. And I was forbidden to do agriculture by father. I was then going to do horticulture. But could not do it as could not get to the placement. So I worked with my dad for a year. Then went back to college and re-took my GCSE's. I came out with A-E and I was really proud as the 1st time around the highest I got was a C. But second time around I got a C in Physics!!!! And even to this day when I was so proud I got could have done better with the D and E:mad:

Anyway after that did A levels and then got a job 20 miles away even though I could not drive. but my parents were not happy. Think that they wanted me closer to home. And if I stayed over at any friends I got the spanish inquisition due to my older brother and his antics when younger.

So have grown up not feeling like I am worth anything to anyone. My dad will talk to anyone and so will my brothers. but thats not me I will even avoid eye contact with people. I have tried to fake it so many times. But I die inside.

Penguin -end

I know it reality that my worse fears will not happen and no one will die if I do X and Y. But I just can never shake that feeling.

And I just seem so full of anxiety and lack so much confidence. At my old people did not believe me when I said it was all an act. But I knew my job inside but due to issues because of my ex in and out of my life my mental health suffered greatly. And did not like the person I was any more and it was a case of leave. As I don't think my boss was prepared to put up with me for much longer. As I started to worry and over analyse ever thing I was doing. even though I knew it was right.

Sorry about the essay guys.

Yours

Calley

Waves_and_Smiles

If we grow up being told we are second best and never quite good enough it stays with us for our whole lives. Personalities are formed in childhood so the way we are treated then is crucial. I am so sorry that you didn't receive the support you should have, it makes perfect sense why you don't like yourself very much. You must have felt so alone and at fault.

I could tell you that you are very worthwhile with so much to offer which is very true but I know that it feels just like empty words when it is not what you feel inside. People told me for years that I was a good person and I would still think that they only believed that because they hadn't realised the truth of how awful I really was yet. You need to fight against what your childhood conditioned you to believe, the bad things you feel about yourself are lies. It takes time, I would love to tell you that you can change this thinking overnight but you can't. Try to start to challenge the small things, question whether it is low self-esteem and panic making you feel what you do rather than anything you have done wrong. Then forgive yourself, just as you would forgive anyone else who had been through what you have. Continue to do it in every situation and try to register how many of your reactions come from fear, I bet there are far more that do than you initially think of. Then face that fear and try to rationalise it, on paper often helps clarify it. Slowly does it, step by step and you will get there, I promise.

calleyw

WaS,

Thank you so much.

Its something I need to work on before I can even think about another relationship with anyone.

I have taken on your ideas on board.

Yours

Calley

System

Calley, i think at times you (and probably most of us in this thread!) have a tendency to be too harsh on yourself. I think in regards to the ex-who-isn't-technically-an-ex it might be best to take a step back and cut contact. He clearly has his own issues, and i feel if it was going to work, it would have done by now. But that is no way a failure on your part. Sometimes things just don;t work. Doesn't mean it's your fault or that you've done wrong, its just one of those things.

waS makes some very good points, how you were treated in the past has had an effect on how you see yourself now. And its simply not true. You're not second best or a bad person. You're an awesome, lovely person, you've shown time and time again to us how kind, understanding and compassionate you are.

Low self esteem and anxiety are hard enough to cope with on their own let alone together. I've always had low self esteem It stems from being bullied in school (mainly about my weight, cemented by the fact when i lost weight the bullying stopped) and that low self esteem followed me into adulthood. I've done things i'm not proud of. I did them because when a guy showed interest in me i suddenly felt like i actually had some worth, i was blind to the fact they were using me. And when i did realise i'd retreat into a self loathing depression and hating myself, believing nobody could ever care about me or love me. And anxiety? I'd had a share of that too. Feeling paranoid the people i was with would leave me, that they'd find someone better, panicking if they didn't reply to a text or message, i always assumed the worst. I'd immediately think, they hate me, they're going to leave me. It as always me jumping to the worst case scenario. Even now with Swain i still sometimes get those feelings. Albeit not as much, like if he doesn't reply i know he;s probably just buy, not he suddenly hates me and will leave me. But its taken a very long time, and several relationships to get to that point.

I still have periods of low self esteem, but i feel over time i've been able to manage it a bit better. I try and tell myself i'm awesome i mean i don;t believe it a lot of the time but i find if you tell yourself something enough (just like with negative things) eventually, just a little you start to believe them more.

codemonkey

MU, you make some good points about self-esteem. I've always had low self-esteem too which comes from never really feeling noticed at home. I was never anyone's favourite. Then I was bullied at school too and retreated into myself. I'm not pretty (it's okay, not everyone can be. I'mean attractive in a weird, geeky way and I have other qualities) but none of the boys fancied me at school or uni and I watched my friends flirting and getting boyfriends (sometimes the ones I secretly liked) and felt worthless. It didn't help that my sort of foster sister was gorgeous and all the boys wanted her and even the girls who were my friends preferred her to me. She was my dad's favourite too. Like you, that followed me into adulthood and I did the same as you with men, followed by the crushing self-loathing. I slept with some very unsuitable men, including some who were clearly only using me for sex. I was in relationships with more than one guy who was still hung up on his ex because I didn't believe I deserved any better. Even now, I struggle because as much as I love DH he does get very focused on games and doesn't pay enough attention to me and I start to feel, well, like wallpaper. Beige wallpaper. I must be very unattractive if even my husband doesn't see me. I think my occasional imaginings that the guy in my office likes me is pure fantasy based on the fact that I know he used to and it would be lovely to believe that someone is interested in me.

Anyway...that's my problem and I need to work on that and stop letting my worth be based on what other people think, because ultimately, it needs to be about how much I value myself. So here are some positive things about me: I have pretty eyes which are very blue, decent boobs and great legs, I am intelligent. I know many random facts which make me great at pub quizzes and I am a good listener and people confide in me. There. I am awesome.

The other thing I wanted to bring up is the answering communication thing. I am ashamed to say I am poor at keeping in touch. Part of it is the esteem thing as I wonder who would want to hear from me. The other part is just poor organisation on my part.

Here's what happens when I get a text, fb message or email. If I'm not doing anything, I will answer quickly. If I'm busy, I will read it and decide to answer when I have time. If I'm coding, I lose track of all time so may not read it for hours otherwise I risk getting out of the zone.
So, I've got a message I haven't dealt with immediately. To be honest, after that I generally forget it's there or I remember it, but decide it's too late to respond then forget again. 8f it's a request to do stuff socially, I panic about being out of my comfort zone and try to avoid thinking about it. Its almost never about me not wanting to talk to the other person and more about me being generally rubbish as social stuff really. No wonder I don't have many friends.
Hopefully this helps.

Probably not what you want to hear calley but if someone starts sending me passive aggressive messages or phoning me repeatedly or screaming down the phone it creeps me out and I actively start avoiding them. I understand why you do it, especially when you're scared and confused but this guy is not the right one for you or he'd push past the issues. One of the best lessons I learned about relationships through my chequered past is that if someone is really interested in you, they'll make the effort no matter what else is going on. If they don't, they're not all that into you and probably keeping you as a backup.

Rather typical that when there is nothing worth seeing in the sky, I'm awake. Am very anxious tonight and earlier had to repress the overwhelming urge to start screaming.