Civil Enforcement Ltd Thieves

swallace78

Hello,
My wife got a £70 fine (reduced from £100) for parking in Goldstone Retail Park Hove. She had a nice lunch with some lady friends at Nandos and browsed around TK Max for a while. She was there 3 hours 40 minutes. Apparently it's 3 hours maximum. There's a furniture shop, Toys R Us, Pets at home. Several shops where you can legitimately spend a few hours shopping.
I spoke to Nandos who couldn't care less.
The parking is enforced by Civil Enforcement Ltd and the signs are quite clear if you get close enough to read them.

Since the abomination of a law was upheld at appeal is it worth fighting these anymore?

Thanks for the advice.

fisherjim

Of course it's worth fighting, this whole forum is based on this, start with the 'newbies thread' and come back for more advice.

But don't come back using the 'f' word please when you have got your head around this scam!

And the case you are referring to is still under appeal.

trisontana

Two corrections to your post. It's not a "fine", it's an invoice and that case is now awaiting judgment at the Supreme Court.

Redx

appeal using the template letter to CEL

then use the popla code to go to the Ombudsman Service

there are several grounds for appeal, well documented already on here

swallace78

OK thanks for clarifying the position and my choice of words.

Half_way

nandos are only tennants you need to find out who the land owner is and then go for the landowner to get it cancelled

Redx

swallace78 wrote: »

OK thanks for clarifying the position and my choice of words.

thieves was correct

abomination was correct

legitimately spend a few hours shopping - also correct

lol

as mentioned above, its the landowner or managing agent you need to contact to complain and get it cancelled, but appeal it using the Newbies sticky thread info and template , dont accept the signage , or that they have legal authority (no legal standing), or that the charge is a genuine pre estimate of loss (it isnt) , or that the courts have finished with this (they havent)

its not a fine , its an INVOICE

plus they have discounted it correctly either, so another defence point

the NTK probably fails POFA 2012 , so another defence point

ad infinitum (keep going)

swallace78

I have the template with the points abcde, formal, drop hands and breach of ccrs. Should I send it as is or add my bits about legit shopping/eating.
Owners are Scottish windows investment fund; pointless contacting them. I've found an email address for the managing agent Indigo Partners so I'll start with a moody email to a director there.

Guys_Dad

swallace78 wrote: »

I have the template with the points abcde, formal, drop hands and breach of ccrs. Should I send it as is or add my bits about legit shopping/eating.
Owners are Scottish windows investment fund; pointless contacting them. I've found an email address for the managing agent Indigo Partners so I'll start with a moody email to a director there.

If you are going to do this, then flesh out exactly where your wife went shopping & eating, how much she spent and that the time was being beneficially spent for the tenants of the centre. You appreciate that motorists who may want to take advantage of the parking may need to be curbed, but your wife was a bona fide shopper - as was her friend - and that they are exactly the sort of customer that the shops and restaurants want to encourage.

Redx

if you embellish the template letter you run the risk of dropping the driver "in it"

use third party language only, stating that the occupants of the car went about their lawful business on the site, visiting retailers etc, spending money in ths shops (redacted receipts or bank statements included)

try not to give away any driver details , assume you are a solicitor writing on behalf of a client, or an MP in parliament saying "my right honourable friend was shopping on the park" - ie:- they dont state Yvette Cooper was shopping on the park

it may be only words, but the correct words are paramount and applies to the PPC appeal and complaint to Indigo too

swallace78

to Nick Belsten director @ indigo planning- the managing agent. will copy to all and sundry if I don't get a response sharpish. All comments welcome.
Thank you

Dear Nick,
I am writing to you as a director of Indigo Partners and representative of Scottish Widows Investment Fund to complain about your agent Civil Enforcement Limited and their treatment of legitimate customers at the Goldstone Retail Park in Hove which you manage.
My wife received a fine for £60 (reduced from £100) for parking in Goldstone Retail Park. She had a nice lunch with five friends at Nandos and browsed around TK Max for a while. She was there 3 hours 40 minutes, apparently it's 3 hours maximum. As you know there's a furniture shop, Toys R Us, Pets at Home, several shops where you can legitimately spend a few hours shopping. I appreciate your need to curb motorists taking advantage of the free parking but my wife was a bona fide visitor and she and her friends are exactly the kind of customer that your tenants would hope you encourage.

If necessary I will be challenging the fine with CEL on the grounds below and then with POPLA but would like to give you the opportunity to do the right thing and have the PCN(5282854271) cancelled.

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b). The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). Their 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
d). I believe that the signs are ambiguous; there is a large Free Parking sign at the entrance and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Yours Sincerely
P.S.
I think it would also be wise to review the 3 hour limit now you have taken on a restaurant as a tenant.