Goodbye to the UK as we know it

JReacher1

no1catman wrote: »

'JD' talked a lot of sense, if you want to label it 'racist' because you can't discuss it, or that you on a 'white-guilt' trip, fine.


But, reality is - Saudi Arabia is not taking any!? The Gulf States are not taking any!? And guess what Kuwait aren't taking any either!?
I hope I'm wrong on that but I haven't seen any news about any such offers.
Now, I'm not aware of any other prosperous Muslim countries, where they would more easily adapt to.


So far Germany is accepting them, I wonder how long for?


How will you feel if they have a priority to housing, when someone in your family is already waiting ... ?

The majority of Syrian refugees are in Iran, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. It is only a relatively small percentage who have come to the EU.

I also don't see why they should be forced to go to a Muslim country. There is more to a person than what religion they are. There are a very large number of Muslims in the EU. Perhaps these should be sent to the Muslim countries as well?

DandelionPatrol

JReacher1 wrote: »

So just to clarify if we withdraw from the EU you believe this will lead to the full occupation of Europe by ISIS and they will soon start to threaten our borders.

I wonder if Dave will use this as a reason to vote we stay in? It would certainly spice up the campaign!

Never mind the words you try and postulate for me. I believe that if we disengage from the EU, we will have no influence on the ISIS situation or on how ISIS interacts with the EU. If we disengage, we are saying that if ISIS [or a morph of ISIS] takes over countries of the EU, we are not concerned about anything which happens as close as the English channel.

The most insane thing this country could do at this time, and in the light of what is going on, is to precipitate the breakup of the EU.

I do not think that the ISIS threat is 'soon' as we know 'soon', but the timescale could be over the next 30 to 40 years. This will give you time to finish your glass of beer, but nipping ISIS in the bud will not wait for us to deal with our national angst about the EU.

no1catman

Yes, I appreciate that the majority currently are in refugee camps in countries that border Syria.
But post (and I believe the OP) was referring to resettling them in a new home/country.
No where did I suggest the use of 'force', I only contrasted the silence from the prosperous Arab countries, to the long-distant trek to Europe.
Yes, the are many Muslims in the EU already (surprised you think they should return to a Muslim country - which one do you have in mind), but these are already used to Western culture, whereas these newcomers may well find it a culture shock.

Keep_pedalling

Do you mean goodby to the country that previously gave sancturay to the huguenots at the beginning 18th Centuary, Jews fleeing persecution in Russia in the 19th century, and later Jews from Nazi occupied Europe, Ugandan Asians after Idi Armin kicked out some of the most productive people his county contained.

There are many more historical examples that illustrate that the UK has acted in a generous manor to the persecuted in the past, and I'm glad that we are still capable of such generousity.

JReacher1

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Never mind the words you try and postulate for me. I believe that if we disengage from the EU, we will have no influence on the ISIS situation or on how ISIS interacts with the EU. If we disengage, we are saying that if ISIS [or a morph of ISIS] takes over countries of the EU, we are not concerned about anything which happens as close as the English channel.

The most insane thing this country could do at this time, and in the light of what is going on, is to precipitate the breakup of the EU.

I do not think that the ISIS threat is 'soon' as we know 'soon', but the timescale could be over the next 30 to 40 years. This will give you time to finish your glass of beer, but nipping ISIS in the bud will not wait for us to deal with our national angst about the EU.

The UK will always have a say in serious foreign policy issues like ISIS whether we are within the EU or not. It is ridiculous to assume that the UK leaving the EU would lead to the UK not defending our European allies from a foreign invasion.

We are a key member of NATO which means we will have a military obligation to defend any NATO country from invasion. Whether we stay or leave the EU we will stay in NATO.

In addition we are one of only five permanent members of the UN Security Council and as such play an important role in the UN as well.

I want us to stay in the EU but whether we stay or leave will have no impact at all on the rise of ISIS.

ElefantEd

This is the town of Kobani as it is now. Obviously anyone fleeing from there must be an economic migrant.

hollydays

I don't understand jaydees perspective on this as his own town has a very low immigrant population , but also very low educational attainment levels.....

DandelionPatrol

JReacher1 wrote: »

The UK will always have a say in serious foreign policy issues like ISIS whether we are within the EU or not. It is ridiculous to assume that the UK leaving the EU would lead to the UK not defending our European allies from a foreign invasion.

We are a key member of NATO which means we will have a military obligation to defend any NATO country from invasion. Whether we stay or leave the EU we will stay in NATO.

In addition we are one of only five permanent members of the UN Security Council and as such play an important role in the UN as well.

I want us to stay in the EU but whether we stay or leave will have no impact at all on the rise of ISIS.

I am not so sure that any invasion would be of the variety which NATO would recognise or address.

According to a Hungarian I spoke to within the last 48 hours, ISIS has the ability to produce Syrian passports. If you look at this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5319929 it quotes as follows

Yes, there are families in the throng at Keleti. Plenty with young children. But if you stand and take a rough count it is hard not to come to the conclusion that young men are in the overwhelming majority.

My Hungarian acquaintance says that the word on the street is that the refugees are 40% refugees, 40% 'benefit tourists' [his words] and 20% terrorists.

Now, I think that the percentages are exaggerated, but I note the potential and I think Cameron is right [there's a first] to want the problem dealt with within the area.

And this is where we could do with EU leaders getting their heads screwed on to make sure that the refugee camps close to the crisis are getting adequate food. I am fearing that Merkel is actually drawing refugees to Germany to keep the pressure off the UK for the sake of our referendum. This is producing exactly the opposite effect to that desired and drawing more refugees.

Our referendum is a distraction and our own understandable domestic pressures to leave the EU are actually counterproductive to resolving ISIS and I believe they present a big risk of letting ISIS off the leash to our detriment.

forgotmyname

I did wonder where they will house the immigrants, my SIL will be homeless at the end of the month after her partner of almost 20 years decided to call her at work to say he is leaving.

She cannot afford the rent on her wages so having to give it up. Went down to the council to be told you wont be a priority, given the number to a housing association who told her their list wont be open again for another 5 years...

So where are they housing them?

pendragon_arther

jaydeeuk1 wrote: »

Probably get deleted but what the hell. Just read we're spending £1 billion pound on economic migrants, sorry 'refugees', to bring them to the UK. Meanwhile we have homeless, hundreds of thousands of people living in poverty, nhs falling apart and already short of money, schools suffering a lack of places and funds and qualified teachers, lack of housing sending costs soaring, and here we are a tiny island taking thousands more.

Thank you to the media for using a picture of a boy to guilt trip everyone in Europe to accept them, even though the majority of these immigrants are young men who can't be arsed to fight for their country, to make it better and secure the future for their children, something our grand parents did. And rather than go to a safe Muslim country where they would integrate a lot better, with far less impact and cost, they're being settled here. Wouldn't be surprised if the referendum was cancelled, Merkel runs the UK so probably on the phone to Dave right now.

I have 2 young children and I'm terrified to see what sort of country they'll be growing up in, its all downhill from here.

I totally agree. I have seen this country degenerate slowly and gradually over the past few decades where English is rarely spoken on public transport and councils and the NHS are stretched to their limits looking after non British immigrants, where East Europeans can sign on and send money back to their familes abroad when our own are suffering.

Let all refugees go to Brussels and let the Belgiums look after them because it's them that made the rules. Either that or photgraph a dying British toddler and whack the image in the press and see if that gets the same response as the drowned toddler.

I live in the Philippines and that gives a Westerner a whole different perspective on how lfe is valued, where if you haven't got any money and you're sick you die, sometimes in agony. I was in hospital recently and saw a yound Filipino brought in by his parents. He'd broken his back and was in total agonising pain but as they couldn't afford the bill they were turned away. He begged his parents to let him die. That is more heart-wrenching than a single toddler washed up on the beach to make the news of the day.