Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

Sapphire wrote: »

Personally, I like Teresa May's style, and I do think she has charisma (as well as competence), though she has a quiet way about her. She seems very different from political leaders we've had in the past – though I still need to see how she will do.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

System

setmefree2 wrote: »

Labour - don't see this as a victory. With a different candidate you coould have won this election.

With a different Labour leader the election wouldn't have happened and Mrs. May would be enjoying a Tory majority until at least 2020.

lisyloo

This voting shows as not being class based.
If shows as being split by age.
I was quite idealistic when I was young and had no money. I am less naive now and have a bigger stake and interest. Young people don't think about pensions let Alone long term care.

But my main point was there isn't a class difference.

Moby

lisyloo wrote: »

This voting shows as not being class based.
If shows as being split by age.
I was quite idealistic when I was young and had no money. I am less naive now and have a bigger stake and interest. Young people don't think about pensions let Alone long term care.

But my main point was there isn't a class difference.

Perhaps generalising about how young people think and saying the young are generally naive is a serious problem. I mean you could say the young are idealistic and the old vote Tory out of self interest? However we see things it seems we have constructed a society in which the wealth available is not distributed fairly? Empowering the young to participate in our democracy is the way to a healthier society imo.

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

Perhaps generalising about how young people think and saying the young are generally naive is a serious problem. I mean you could say the young are idealistic and the old vote Tory out of self interest? ...

You could. Or you could say that the young vote Labour out of self-interest in the hope of getting something for nothing, and that the old vote Conservative in order to preserve what they've spent a lifetime accumulating from work.

Moby wrote: »

..However we see things it seems we have constructed a society in which the wealth available is not distributed fairly?

Life isn't fair. Particularly if you live somewhere like Angola. How much of your wealth are you prepared to redistribute to some poor African to make things fairer?

Moby wrote: »

... Empowering the young to participate in our democracy is the way to a healthier society imo.

Teaching them to read and write should be sufficient. After all, how much 'empoworment' is necessary to get someone to put a cross on a ballot paper or whatever.

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

You could. Or you could say that the young vote Labour out of self-interest in the hope of getting something for nothing, and that the old vote Conservative in order to preserve what they've spent a lifetime accumulating from work.

I know many young people through work and although one shouldn't generalise I'd say they were not generally selfish but naive....there's a tendency to believe that no matter what they say or think the system is stacked against them, because the system is dominated by old grey men. One old grey man, (quite ironically) is trying to change that attitude;)

Life isn't fair. Particularly if you live somewhere like Angola. How much of your wealth are you prepared to redistribute to some poor African to make things fairer?

Big question I agree. Perhaps we should accept that we need to be doing better than we are as a start?

Teaching them to read and write should be sufficient. After all, how much 'empoworment' is necessary to get someone to put a cross on a ballot paper or whatever

It never ceases to amaze me how people ignore the fact that children raised in comfortable circumstances tend to do better than those who aren't. Always exceptions of course but the levers of power tend to be held by those with in built privilege.

GreatApe

One of the problems we have is that almost no one is willing to state that life is quite good for the vast majority of the people in the UK. We live in a developed country with high wages and lots of opportunity.

Of course some people have problems some have very serious problems in life but often these are not related to government policy or how much is taxed and distributed. Most the serious problems for many in the UK are things like addiction and family breakdowns.

Moby

GreatApe wrote: »

One of the problems we have is that almost no one is willing to state that life is quite good for the vast majority of the people in the UK. We live in a developed country with high wages and lots of opportunity.

Of course some people have problems some have very serious problems in life but often these are not related to government policy or how much is taxed and distributed. Most the serious problems for many in the UK are things like addiction and family breakdowns.

Surely Government policy has a very significant impact on peoples lives. Housing, health, education, environmental etc. If you are a child, (a complete blank canvas), how you turn out as a person, life chances etc etc will more likely or not depend on whether you were raised in Surrey or Toxteth. It's sad and unacceptable. Totally accept there are always going to be differences but we have a very stratified society and the differences are accentuated more than many other western countries.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Surely Government policy has a very significant impact on peoples lives. Housing, health, education, environmental etc. If you are a child, (a complete blank canvas), how you turn out as a person, life chances etc etc will more likely or not depend on whether you were raised in Surrey or Toxteth. It's sad and unacceptable.

Please stop paying dumb you do everyone a disservice

it wont depend if you are raised in surrey or toxteth, it will depend on who your parents are and what genetics you inherited

Now you may claim that it is sad and unacceptable that children are born to parents of different interests different IQ different habits different morals different work ethics different wealth different genetics different support networks etc

Of course that is true its not fair some children are born with good genetics and good parents and some children are born without one or both of them. But to pretend korbin can or wants to fix this is simply a lie.


Once more I will say it out aloud, we in the uk have lots of opportunities to live well and most of us do live good happy lives. I know a wide spectrum of people and the ones that are in difficult situations their situations have nothing to do with government policy. It is often their own doing like gambling or alcohol addiction or just incompatable people living together and making their lives and often their childrens lives hell

Moby

GreatApe wrote: »

Please stop paying dumb you do everyone a disservice

it wont depend if you are raised in surrey or toxteth, it will depend on who your parents are and what genetics you inherited

Now you may claim that it is sad and unacceptable that children are born to parents of different interests different IQ different habits different morals different work ethics different wealth different genetics different support networks etc

Of course that is true its not fair some children are born with good genetics and good parents and some children are born without one or both of them. But to pretend korbin can or wants to fix this is simply a lie.


Once more I will say it out aloud, we in the uk have lots of opportunities to live well and most of us do live good happy lives. I know a wide spectrum of people and the ones that are in difficult situations their situations have nothing to do with government policy. It is often their own doing like gambling or alcohol addiction or just incompatable people living together and making their lives and often their childrens lives hell

Typical Thatcherite 'no such thing as society' argument. Many people have gambling, addiction, alcohol issues because of domestic violence, poor overcrowded housing, racism, lack of positive role models, cutbacks of services in their communities... Your view of the world is something I fight against day after day. Atlees Govmt in 1945 brought in a NHS, Pensions etc. The coalmines were nationalised and regulated by Govmt policy. The Govmt brought in regulations, health and safety standards etc etc. Private owners wanted miners working in as poor conditions as possible to maximise their profits. Many men died. Govmt policy is totally relevant to our wellbeing!