Corbynomics: A Dystopia

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

If you are a child, (a complete blank canvas), how you turn out as a person, life chances etc etc will more likely or not depend on whether you were raised in Surrey or Toxteth. It's sad and unacceptable..

This statement annoys me more than it should

Surely you must know siblings who have greatly different lives, different incomes, different interests, different views and morals, different almost everything. All despite being brought up by the same parents in the same house in the same way?

Outcome is defendant on genetics on luck on how hard one tries and on a million other things. To pretend its just some problem that can be solved by a korbin or clone of his is just insulting

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Typical Thatcherite 'no such thing as society' argument. Many people have gambling, addiction, alcohol issues because of domestic violence, poor overcrowded housing, racism, lack of positive role models, cutbacks of services in their communities... Your view of the world is something I fight against day after day. Atlees Govmt in 1945 brought in a NHS, Pensions etc. The coalmines were nationalised and regulated by Govmt policy. The Govmt brought in regulations, health and safety standards etc etc. Private owners wanted miners working in as poor conditions as possible to maximise their profits. Many men died. Govmt policy is totally relevant to our wellbeing!

It plays a part, often the much smaller part

One day, I think likely in our lifetime, we will get to a point where we have true and full abundance. Where AI and robots will do almost all the work. At that point there will still be people with !!!! lives and people who are unhappy desperate and even suicidal

Well being and happiness is more than just resources and most of all the state does is reallocate resources. The left promise that this reallocation will fix the problems of society. Its mostly BS lies, there are problems that can be fixed or partially fixed by allocating resources differently but people like you pretend most of peoples problems can be fixed by your distribution which is not true

We live in a good rich developed country with lots of opportunity. Its not perfect but it is good.

economic

the way i see it is life is just a game to be played against yourself. you are your own competition.

its achieving goals such as family, career, fitness, business, finanaces etc.

sure not everyone is the same. this is why its pointless trying to compete with anyone but yourself - as otherwise you end up bitter and thinking the world is not fair.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Totally accept there are always going to be differences but we have a very stratified society and the differences are accentuated more than many other western countries.

How can you make that claim?

What differences are accentuated more than any other western countries?

Like most people who hold your views, they are mostly sound bites void of any real thought or comprehension.

The uk is a rich developed country with lots of opportunity to live a good healthy long worthwhile life. The left often play this trick of pretending things are much worse than they are, the right are too weak to sit up and say hold on a minute things are quite good we live in a great country.

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

Please stop paying dumb you do everyone a disservice

it wont depend if you are raised in surrey or toxteth, it will depend on who your parents are and what genetics you inherited

Now you may claim that it is sad and unacceptable that children are born to parents of different interests different IQ different habits different morals different work ethics different wealth different genetics different support networks etc

Of course that is true its not fair some children are born with good genetics and good parents and some children are born without one or both of them. But to pretend korbin can or wants to fix this is simply a lie.


Once more I will say it out aloud, we in the uk have lots of opportunities to live well and most of us do live good happy lives. I know a wide spectrum of people and the ones that are in difficult situations their situations have nothing to do with government policy. It is often their own doing like gambling or alcohol addiction or just incompatable people living together and making their lives and often their childrens lives hell

Do you really believe the surroundings in which you are bought up have no effect.

economic

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really believe the surroundings in which you are bought up have no effect.

they do have an effect but so what? the system we have in place now is far better then what nearly all other countries have in this world. please accept some people are born poor and dont have rich parents so their opportunities are not the same as someone rich however it doesnt mean they cant suceed. sure itll be harder but as i said its a game with yourself no point comparing with others.

your argument is like saying its not fair some people will have a severe illness due to genetics. you cant do anything about that also.

also there is no point saying the world is not fair without saying what you will do to make it better. its not as easy as it sounds - in your world to make it "fairer" wont be so fair to others. its a zero sum game - those who progress our economy in a good way should be rewarded and those who dont shouldnt.

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really believe the surroundings in which you are bought up have no effect.

Lots of things impact your chances in life

The primary factors are probably genetics and your parents intelligence and standing in the world

If we had a choice, if it was a game where we picked characteristics before birth. I would choose good genetics and good parents. That would far supersede which country I was born in especially if it was the choice between two developed countries. Good parents and good genetics in the USA would be a better choice than poor genetics and poor parents in France.


Maybe at some stage in human evolution we will get to a point where humans are all born with an identical perfect genetic code and have their neural network mind programmed by machines to be as perfect as it can be and there will be no parents just a superintelegence machine guiding us through life. Then we will all be born equal. Before that time arrives we are not born equal there is variation in the species we couldn't have made it this far if there wasn't. Some people are upset by this idea but its a simple truth.

GreatApe

Another good thing about the uk is that we have free movement, if someone truly thinks the government or taxation policy is a primary driver of their wellbeing and happiness they have 28+ countries to choose form.

The idea of a federal uk is interesting to me, if we had 12 regional independent areas in the uk with various different taxation and governments it would be even easier to make a choice by simply moving a few dozen miles.

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

...Atlees Govmt in 1945 brought in a NHS, Pensions etc. ...

The principles of the NHS had already been set out in the 1944 White paper. All three parties were committed to establishing a National Health Service in 1945. Oddly enough, the Conservative manifesto of 1945 had more to say on the subject than the Labour equivalent.

Had the Conservatives won in 1945 we would still have had a NHS, only one run by local authorities, just like they do in Sweden. Or just like Morrison wanted. Trouble is Bevan was Health Minister so he nationalised everything he could and created one big organisation. Whether this was a good idea is a matter of debate, but it is worth noting that no other country has ever followed the example.

The same applies to pensions. The Ministry of National Insurance was created in 1944.

The Beveridge Report has a lot to answer for. I believe that Beveridge was a member of the Liberal Party.

Moby wrote: »

..The coalmines were nationalised and regulated by Govmt policy. The Govmt brought in regulations, health and safety standards etc etc. Private owners wanted miners working in as poor conditions as possible to maximise their profits. Many men died. Govmt policy is totally relevant to our wellbeing!

Aberfan. The National Coal Board killed 144 people. It's not only private owners who want to "maximise their profits".

Some of us have not forgotten.

ukcarper

economic wrote: »

they do have an effect but so what? the system we have in place now is far better then what nearly all other countries have in this world. please accept some people are born poor and dont have rich parents so their opportunities are not the same as someone rich however it doesnt mean they cant suceed. sure itll be harder but as i said its a game with yourself no point comparing with others.

your argument is like saying its not fair some people will have a severe illness due to genetics. you cant do anything about that also.

also there is no point saying the world is not fair without saying what you will do to make it better. its not as easy as it sounds - in your world to make it "fairer" wont be so fair to others. its a zero sum game - those who progress our economy in a good way should be rewarded and those who dont shouldnt.

So what seems to be your ans to everything that's but it's a good job everybody doesn't think like you as nothing would ever change. I've been around long enough to know life isn't fair but I've been around a long time and seen the divides getting bigger. It does the country no good to have a large part of the country poorly educated and not fulfilling thier potential.