Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

http://www.lapidomedia.com/analysis-islamization-labour-party-2

Discuss.

Ooooooh I know what I'll do with my Saturday I'll trawl the net to look for articles that denigrate the Labour Party and put them on the money expert forums......with everything else going on......really!.:rotfl:

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The obsession with minorities, and labelling people into social, ethnic or religious groups. They can't help but label people.

Is anyone on the left able to defend things like this:


I mean, what the fudge? Really...? Just look at it. :mad:

There's so many things wrong with the left right now. I hope islamisation isn't one of them.

I think the real issues of concern for society at present are surely the rise of the extreme right. The murder of Jo Cox, the rise of Trump, the types he's choosing for his cabinet, the racism in Brexit, the rise of Marine Le Pen etc.. Your concerns about the excesses of identity politics are facile in comparison.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

I think the real issues of concern for society at present are surely the rise of the extreme right. The murder of Jo Cox, the rise of Trump, the types he's choosing for his cabinet, the racism in Brexit, the rise of Marine Le Pen etc.. Your concerns about the excesses of identity politics are facile in comparison.

You've missed the point. These are the concerns of the liberal left not Tricky's concerns - the liberal left have lost the plot which is why voters are heading to the right. They have become beyond disillusioned.

The left has stopped listening to voters. Worse they have become The Establishment. Worse still they have stopped engaging in debate - they've got nothing - they stubbornly refuse to change course when every sign says turn: when it would be good policy to turn, when it would be overwhelmingly popular to turn, when the country wants them to turn, when it is fully in their power to steer in a different direction. The left they are not for turning.

They see themselves as the good guys but they avoid the real issues - they are much more comfortable talking about marriage equality than anything meaningful to do with change. Forthright on cultural issues (but all parties are these days) yet when confronted with matters of basic economics - not in the room. Why? Because the left have become contented partners in power. The class they care about are the liberal elite class not the working class, not regular folk. So where does this leave the working classes who now have a lack of any real political representation?

The left are supported by minorities, upper middle class white professional, the cultural elite and the young (when they can be bothered to vote) and have lost touch with the working classes. These left wing professional would bristle at being labeled snobs but that's what they are.

A political movement with the smallest sense of humility might look at Brexit and Trump and wonder why they are so out of touch. But when confronted with the suggestion that the metropolitan intelligentsia have gone marching of in the wrong direction their only instinct is to furiously question how the plebs could have possible got it so wrong and who led them astray.

Listen to Corbyn on immigration, miles away from voters...In a million years you will never get him to admit that the scale of immigration in the UK might be problematic. He will say he sympathies with those who have concerns in his ever so 'umble and soft tones, but then watch him try and turn and blame the evil tories for whipping up hate against migrants, for not upping the minimum wage (a pull factor to immigrants) and building more hospitals and schools (where's the money coming from - why the magic money tree).

How a once great party has debased itself. It has now become a party to make the professional classes feel good about themselves while their privileged life styles diverge widely from the great unwashed.

It has become grating and insufferable to hear the self proclaimed party of equality and opportunity bleat on about how progressive they are from their ivory towers.

antrobus

An Opinium/Observer survey published today.

Labour’s overall poll rating is down three points from last month at 29%, while the Conservatives are up one point at 41%. Ukip are on 12%, the Liberal Democrats on 7%, the Scottish National party on 6% and the Greens on 4%.

and

Just 18% of voters would trust the Labour leadership to manage the public finances, the findings of the Opinium/Observer poll show, compared with 44% who have faith in the prime minister and chancellor.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/tories-trusted-by-twice-as-many-voters-with-economy-than-labour-poll

Or to put it another way, one third of Labour voters don't trust Labour.:)

setmefree2

Michael Moore predicted the Trump win.

Good piece here if you're interested.

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

I think the real issues of concern for society at present are surely the rise of the extreme right. The murder of Jo Cox, the rise of Trump, the types he's choosing for his cabinet, the racism in Brexit, the rise of Marine Le Pen etc.. Your concerns about the excesses of identity politics are facile in comparison.

I didn't murder Jo Cox, I didn't commit any hate crimes, I don't believe in white supremacy and I don't believe in isolationism.

Listening to the left you'd think I was/did all of the above.

This is why the left is hated, and if there's no viable centrist alternative, because the left is now so hated, it seems the lesser of two evils to vote for the right in the USA, France, etc...

The concerns are not facile, which is why the left is losing, and Europe and the US are lurching to the right, because of sanctimonious attitudes like the one you just displayed.

I find it astonishing that you would say the rise of the right is a concern for society without actually asking "Why?"! When people are telling you why, you fob it off. And so the lurch to the right continues... People have had enough of "holier than thou" politics. Fashionable politics. I want empirical and pragmatic politics.

ruggedtoast

setmefree2 wrote: »

You've missed the point. These are the concerns of the liberal left not Tricky's concerns - the liberal left have lost the plot which is why voters are heading to the right. They have become beyond disillusioned.

The left has stopped listening to voters. Worse they have become The Establishment. Worse still they have stopped engaging in debate - they've got nothing - they stubbornly refuse to change course when every sign says turn: when it would be good policy to turn, when it would be overwhelmingly popular to turn, when the country wants them to turn, when it is fully in their power to steer in a different direction. The left they are not for turning.

They see themselves as the good guys but they avoid the real issues - they are much more comfortable talking about marriage equality than anything meaningful to do with change. Forthright on cultural issues (but all parties are these days) yet when confronted with matters of basic economics - not in the room. Why? Because the left have become contented partners in power. The class they care about are the liberal elite class not the working class, not regular folk. So where does this leave the working classes who now have a lack of any real political representation?

The left are supported by minorities, upper middle class white professional, the cultural elite and the young (when they can be bothered to vote) and have lost touch with the working classes. These left wing professional would bristle at being labeled snobs but that's what they are.

A political movement with the smallest sense of humility might look at Brexit and Trump and wonder why they are so out of touch. But when confronted with the suggestion that the metropolitan intelligentsia have gone marching of in the wrong direction their only instinct is to furiously question how the plebs could have possible got it so wrong and who led them astray.

Listen to Corbyn on immigration, miles away from voters...In a million years you will never get him to admit that the scale of immigration in the UK might be problematic. He will say he sympathies with those who have concerns in his ever so 'umble and soft tones, but then watch him try and turn and blame the evil tories for whipping up hate against migrants, for not upping the minimum wage (a pull factor to immigrants) and building more hospitals and schools (where's the money coming from - why the magic money tree).

How a once great party has debased itself. It has now become a party to make the professional classes feel good about themselves while their privileged life styles diverge widely from the great unwashed.

It has become grating and insufferable to hear the self proclaimed party of equality and opportunity bleat on about how progressive they are from their ivory towers.

Well thats why we're busy expelling the Blairites from the Party.

Glad you're onboard.

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I didn't murder Jo Cox, I didn't commit any hate crimes, I don't believe in white supremacy and I don't believe in isolationism.

Listening to the left you'd think I was/did all of the above.

This is why the left is hated, and if there's no viable centrist alternative, because the left is now so hated, it seems the lesser of two evils to vote for the right in the USA, France, etc...

The concerns are not facile, which is why the left is losing, and Europe and the US are lurching to the right, because of sanctimonious attitudes like the one you just displayed.

I find it astonishing that you would say the rise of the right is a concern for society without actually asking "Why?"! When people are telling you why, you fob it off. And so the lurch to the right continues... People have had enough of "holier than thou" politics. Fashionable politics. I want empirical and pragmatic politics.

Europe and the US aren't lurching to the Right. Firstly Clinton, a politician I dislike enormously, garnered a million more votes than Trump, secondly a number of Trump's policies are (or were, he's backpedalling on most of his promises harder than a circus unicyclist at the moment) truly left wing.

State intervention in industry, ending the free market to protect the Rust Belt. taxing Wall Street to provide free higher education. Neoliberalist, right wing? Not really. None of them will happen of course but there you go.

The issue I have with you and your henchmen like Clapton and Setmefree is that you cherry pick disaffection, blame immigrants for it, and then announce that there is no solution other than voting for the far right. Of course the collateral damage of abandoning gender inequality and gay rights is just a nice bonus isn't it?

Incidentally, it might behove you to remember that you got a Brexit vote by the narrowest of margins and if the referendum were rerun tomorrow you would lose.

TrickyTree83

Europe and the US aren't lurching to the Right. Firstly Clinton, a politician I dislike enormously, garnered a million more votes than Trump.

Yes it was truly staggering that so many people believed the lying cow and her lying cronies. It will change in time, when the average folk see through movements like BLM who advocate for the murder of police (then it actually happens) and then Obama invites them into the White House, no disavowing allowed! Hopefully Trump will deliver meaningful change for these people instead of turning a blind eye to the riots. The Democrats just want to keep them shackled to the teat of the state so they continue to vote for people in power who will give them the handouts. Hence wanting to make millions of illegal migrants automatic citizens, consolidating Democrat power. Whereas Trump was proposing that they stick to the letter of the law, like the millions of legal migrants did.

The issue I have with you and your henchmen like Clapton and Setmefree is that you cherry pick disaffection, blame immigrants for it, and then announce that there is no solution other than voting for the far right.

Where have I blamed immigrants for the problems in the UK? I'd keep free movement if we have to. I recognise the issues that many people have with it, I'm not directly affected, but they might be. I don't just ignore them and call them xenophobes to make myself feel better than them.

I've blamed the arrogance and self proclaimed virtue and piety of the left for the lurch to the right.

Incidentally, it might behove you to remember that you got a Brexit vote by the narrowest of margins and if the referendum were rerun tomorrow you would lose.

You're so clever. Perhaps you should try and get an audience with the government to tell them of this information, I had no idea, I can't tell the future.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Europe and the US aren't lurching to the Right. Firstly Clinton, a politician I dislike enormously, garnered a million more votes than Trump, secondly a number of Trump's policies are (or were, he's backpedalling on most of his promises harder than a circus unicyclist at the moment) truly left wing.

State intervention in industry, ending the free market to protect the Rust Belt. taxing Wall Street to provide free higher education. Neoliberalist, right wing? Not really. None of them will happen of course but there you go.

The issue I have with you and your henchmen like Clapton and Setmefree is that you cherry pick disaffection, blame immigrants for it, and then announce that there is no solution other than voting for the far right. Of course the collateral damage of abandoning gender inequality and gay rights is just a nice bonus isn't it?

Incidentally, it might behove you to remember that you got a Brexit vote by the narrowest of margins and if the referendum were rerun tomorrow you would lose.

It's hate filled people like you that will keep the trots out of power.