Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Jason74

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Corbyn smashes Smith with full support from the CWU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-latest-trade-union-communication-workers-union-support-vote-a7166811.html

JC has got the support of one of the largest unions. There really is no point Smith carrying on, other than to continue the Blairites obsession with Labour killing itself rather than fighting the Tories, for another couple if months.

In one sense you're right. I really can't see smith winning, and doubtless Corbyn will remain as Labour "leader".

But it's not really about that any more imho. Now, I know you don't acknowledge this, but the simple fact is that Corbyn is truly hopeless. The best way I can put it is to say that prior to Corbyn , the worst major party leaders of the post war period were probably IDS, Foot, and perhaps Eden. On a (by definition subjective) leadership test, those three would probably all achieve % scores somewhere in the 30s for their overall performance. Corbyn's score would be in single figures. He really is that bad.

Of course, none of this is a surprise. His record prior to getting the job pointed heavily at him being rubbish in it, and everything we've seen so far (from the early PR own goals to his dismal performance in the referendum and pretty much everything since) simply confirms that view.

Now, the PLP know this. They've known him in some cases for many years, and have experienced his leadership first hand. They know that they can't continue to work under him. But that is what the members are asking. Lets not forget that Labour is effectively a new party using established, with close to two thirds of the members having joined since the last election. Those new members appear to continue to support Corbyn.

So there really is no option other than a split. The bulk of the PLP will need to form its own party separate from Labour, as that's going to be the only way to remove Corbyn from his "leader of the opposition" position, and in doing so the only way to have real opposition to the Tories. But before doing that, they have to demonstrate that they have tried every reasonable measure to avoid this outcome.

So however bad things look for Smith, he has to stay in the race to the bitter end. Only then can the PLP do what needs to be done with a clear conscience, and start the process of proper opposition, without Corbyn.

westernpromise

I reckon Smith will withdraw before September. I do find it funny that left wing commentators bang on about how Labour needs a Kinnock! Kinnock blew two elections so I would guess most Tories would like Labour to find another Kinnock as well!

ruggedtoast

Jason74 wrote: »

In one sense you're right. I really can't see smith winning, and doubtless Corbyn will remain as Labour "leader".

But it's not really about that any more imho. Now, I know you don't acknowledge this, but the simple fact is that Corbyn is truly hopeless. The best way I can put it is to say that prior to Corbyn , the worst major party leaders of the post war period were probably IDS, Foot, and perhaps Eden. On a (by definition subjective) leadership test, those three would probably all achieve % scores somewhere in the 30s for their overall performance. Corbyn's score would be in single figures. He really is that bad.

Of course, none of this is a surprise. His record prior to getting the job pointed heavily at him being rubbish in it, and everything we've seen so far (from the early PR own goals to his dismal performance in the referendum and pretty much everything since) simply confirms that view.

Now, the PLP know this. They've known him in some cases for many years, and have experienced his leadership first hand. They know that they can't continue to work under him. But that is what the members are asking. Lets not forget that Labour is effectively a new party using established, with close to two thirds of the members having joined since the last election. Those new members appear to continue to support Corbyn.

So there really is no option other than a split. The bulk of the PLP will need to form its own party separate from Labour, as that's going to be the only way to remove Corbyn from his "leader of the opposition" position, and in doing so the only way to have real opposition to the Tories. But before doing that, they have to demonstrate that they have tried every reasonable measure to avoid this outcome.

So however bad things look for Smith, he has to stay in the race to the bitter end. Only then can the PLP do what needs to be done with a clear conscience, and start the process of proper opposition, without Corbyn.

All very nice but again, overlooking the fact that Labour haven't provided an opposition to the Tories for decades.

They effectively became the Tories under Blair, were hopeless under their chosen leader, Millipede, a man who came off worse in a TV debate against Myleen Klass. They have since clearly decided that opposing neoliberalism is a bit too much effort so may as well pitch in with waving through war, austerity, benefit cuts, and the end of the social contract. All the the things they are meant to exist to oppose, basically.

Incidentally, since his inauguration Corbyn has seen off Tory proposals to cut tax credits and disabled people's benefits.

I appreciate Blairites don't care about these things so wouldn't consider them to be succeses. One might think they would be interested however in four by-election victories, four mayoralties, and a clear majority of Labour voters coming in for Remain. Unlike the Tories pathetic 40 odd percent. Not even half of them voting with their own government.

But none of this matters apparently because it's not in the Daily Mail or any of the rest of the Tory owned mainstream media.

markharding557

westernpromise wrote: »

I reckon Smith will withdraw before September. I do find it funny that left wing commentators bang on about how Labour needs a Kinnock! Kinnock blew two elections so I would guess most Tories would like Labour to find another Kinnock as well!

When Kinnock took over Labour they had just 209 seats, in 1992 when Kinnock stood down they had 271, a net gain of 62 so they moved forward.

He never won an election but he did beat militant and left the party in a much better state.

Labour really needs another Kinnock character after the damage Corbyn has wreaked and that which is yet to come.

mrginge

There will be no split.
Corbyn will win.
PLP will go back to quiet plotting under the cover of Brexit negotiations.
Labour will provide useless opposition for the rest of the parliament.
Tories win 100 seat majority.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There was a pact with Brown. Hence why Brown retained his prominent position. The pact glued the core factions of the Labour party together, and pushed the likes of Corbyn to the fringes.

I agree, but for rugged's purposes, he is ignoring the fact that Labour won three elections on the trot by appealing to the left and the centre. Elections are usually won by convincing floating voters in about 20% of the seats to vote for you. Cameron just about did this last year.

The way Corbyn is going he will be lucky to win seats that have not elected a Labour MP for decades.

BobQ

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Corbyn smashes Smith with full support from the CWU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-latest-trade-union-communication-workers-union-support-vote-a7166811.html

JC has got the support of one of the largest unions. There really is no point Smith carrying on, other than to continue the Blairites obsession with Labour killing itself rather than fighting the Tories, for another couple if months.

JC has the support of the executive of the UCW. The members of the UCW have not yet voted.

BobQ

mrginge wrote: »

There will be no split.
Corbyn will win.
PLP will go back to quiet plotting under the cover of Brexit negotiations.
Labour will provide useless opposition for the rest of the parliament.
Tories win 100 seat majority.

Agreed apart from the first and third ones. Labour MPs will make life difficult for Corbyn and we may see a new party particularly when the de-selections start.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

It should make you think if someone who has been a union member for many years and taken industrial action to protect their rights is know finding it impossible to support the Labour Party.

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

Agreed apart from the first and third ones. Labour MPs will make life difficult for Corbyn and we may see a new party particularly when the de-selections start.

I just don't see how practical it is to split. No doubt there'll be all sorts of games played, but it's a big ask to actually rip the party apart.

A few choice defections is my bet. If you're at risk of de-selection and reckon you've got a fair crack at taking your local voters with you, what have you got to lose?
Most of the PLP are closer to the lib dems than new-old-labour now anyway.