Corbynomics: A Dystopia

wotsthat

There does seem to be a lack of pragmatism in the labour party these days. Wouldn't it be better to choose a 'Blairite' who might be electable thus ensuring some labour policies get enacted rather than sticking with Corbyn and enacting none?

Jason74

wotsthat wrote: »

There does seem to be a lack of pragmatism in the labour party these days. Wouldn't it be better to choose a 'Blairite' who might be electable thus ensuring some labour policies get enacted rather than sticking with Corbyn and enacting none?

I would agree. And in terms of promoting a sensible left of centre viewpoint (I appreciate that a few on here feel there is no such thing, but please put that one aside for the purposes of this post) , the problems caused by a Corbyn type "leader" go even deeper than that.

If you have a Labour party that actually has a chance of being elected, that influences what the Tories do. Being a pretty pragmatic lot, the Tories put winning elections high up their priority list. A decent opposition creates the risk of the Tories losing. This moderates their more extreme tendencies, and the Tories aren't even above stealing a few of Labours clothes where they feel it appropriate.

The above process helps democracy no end, stops extremism in either direction, and means that even when not in Government. the opposition plays an important role in the political process. Because of Corbyn and his supporters (and they are the issue here, regardless of what a few might think), none of this is happening. This is bad news at the best of times, but in the middle of the biggest constitutional issue for 100 years, it's noting short of a catastrophe.

ruggedtoast

Jason74 wrote: »

I would agree. And in terms of promoting a sensible left of centre viewpoint (I appreciate that a few on here feel there is no such thing, but please put that one aside for the purposes of this post) , the problems caused by a Corbyn type "leader" go even deeper than that.

If you have a Labour party that actually has a chance of being elected, that influences what the Tories do. Being a pretty pragmatic lot, the Tories put winning elections high up their priority list. A decent opposition creates the risk of the Tories losing. This moderates their more extreme tendencies, and the Tories aren't even above stealing a few of Labours clothes where they feel it appropriate.

The above process helps democracy no end, stops extremism in either direction, and means that even when not in Government. the opposition plays an important role in the political process. Because of Corbyn and his supporters (and they are the issue here, regardless of what a few might think), none of this is happening. This is bad news at the best of times, but in the middle of the biggest constitutional issue for 100 years, it's noting short of a catastrophe.

Nonsense. Its not up to Labour to frame themselves as slightly left of however far right the Tories or Blairitism has become.

You frame your principles by your own moral compass not that of people who repeatedly are shown not to have one.

I am starting to understand why the Blairite PLP is having such a hard time understanding what people like about Jeremy and why his popularity hasn't fallen, despite all the propaganda they have been slinging at him.

kinger101

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Nonsense. Its not up to Labour to frame themselves as slightly left of however far right the Tories or Blairitism has become.

You frame your principles by your own moral compass not that of people who repeatedly are shown not to have one.

I am starting to understand why the Blairite PLP is having such a hard time understanding what people like about Jeremy and why his popularity hasn't fallen, despite all the propaganda they have been slinging at him.

Amongst those who voted for an “Anyone but Corbyn” candidate last year (Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham or Liz Kendall) eight in ten think he should step down as leader straight away. Amongst the 59% who supported Mr. Corbyn, six in ten think he should stay on and fight the next general election.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/labour-members-corbyn-post-brexit/

So, Corbyn is only popular among party members because the membership is changing. Based on the YouGov poll, Corbyn would have been on about 35% if the membership had remained the same (0.59 * 0.60 = 0.354).

On the Andrew Marr show this morning, Kinnock suggested Labour party rules meant he required nomination to stand again if there was a leadership contest.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You frame your principles by your own moral compass not that of people who repeatedly are shown not to have one.

your moral compass, toxic toastie, seems only to comprise hating most of the ordinary people of this country.

Jason74

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Nonsense. Its not up to Labour to frame themselves as slightly left of however far right the Tories or Blairitism has become.

You frame your principles by your own moral compass not that of people who repeatedly are shown not to have one.

I am starting to understand why the Blairite PLP is having such a hard time understanding what people like about Jeremy and why his popularity hasn't fallen, despite all the propaganda they have been slinging at him.

Whether you like it or not, it really isn't "nonsense". The reality is that Jeremy Corbyn's chances of becoming Prime Minister are about the same as mine. Any "benefit of the doubt" that he may have been entitled to on that score vanished with his pathetic performance in the referendum campaign.

So now we have a situation where the Tories are moving further to the right, we're about to leave the EU (which acted as some form of defence against the more extreme Tory elements) and Labour has a lame duck leader.

If he continues, we are likely to have 15 years or more of Tory Government, and there is a very real risk that the Labour party itself will disintegrate. Now we almost certainly disagree on why this is the case. You see the PLP as being the problem, whereas for me, the issue begins and ends with Corbyn himself (along with those who continue to support him).

But surely in the face of what is now happening, you can't disagree with the idea that if Corbyn continues to cling on, Labour is looking at another decade and a half in opposition at best, and disintegration at worst.

With that in mind, I have a simple question. Is continuing to support Corbyn really worth the outcome described above ?.

markharding557

With that in mind, I have a simple question. Is continuing to support Corbyn really worth the outcome described above ?.

The Corbyn mob would rather stay in opposition than see sense.
As I recall some of them could not even see the light after the 1983 disaster, they are utterly incapable of reason which is why it would be an utter disaster if they ever got in power.

ruggedtoast

With every single rightist mainstream news outlet pumping out anti Corbyn propaganda like there is no tomorrow, and 140 quisling Blairite's in Parliament standing against the people; Labour are still only polling a few points behind the Tories.

Time for the Blairites to give in. Their time is done. The people do not want them.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

With every single rightist mainstream news outlet pumping out anti Corbyn propaganda like there is no tomorrow, and 140 quisling Blairite's in Parliament standing against the people; Labour are still only polling a few points behind the Tories.

Time for the Blairites to give in. Their time is done. The people do not want them.

actually, most of the time the press simply ignore the IRA supporter Corbyn because he is so irrelevant.
They are only really reporting on the rebellion against him

Spidernick

ruggedtoast wrote: »

With every single rightist mainstream news outlet pumping out anti Corbyn propaganda like there is no tomorrow, and 140 quisling Blairite's in Parliament standing against the people; Labour are still only polling a few points behind the Tories.

Time for the Blairites to give in. Their time is done. The people do not want them.

Personally I would like to see Momentum break away and form their own party, but each to their own. I do fear for the survival of the Labour Party the way things are going and, for me, this would be the least toxic option, but appreciate there are many who don't agree.