Corbynomics: A Dystopia

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

You mean like the US does? I do recruit non-US people to work in my US teams and it's a bureaucratic nightmare of immense proportions, costs a fortune, takes ages, and the person you recruit is very limited regards changing jobs, bringing in family, etc.

No thanks.



I also recruit people from outside the EU to work in the UK, and it's not quite as bad as the US, but is getting worse with every passing year.

If employers are forced to do that for nearly everyone (due to limited supply in UK) then they'll probably just not bother with UK offices.



Or maybe some people just don't understand graduate starting salaries.

http://www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html

not really sure the points you are trying to make.
with control over our own borders I don't see the relevance as to how USA manages its borders.

The starting salaries link don't seem to fit with your earlier statements and I see no support for your view that salaries have been rising 'rapidly' for 'many' years
how rapidly is 'rapidly' 10 - 15% per year
and how many is 'many' 10 -20 years?


the point is that we should control our own levels of immigration and that the current levels make us all worse off.

michaels

CLAPTON wrote: »

the point is that we should control our own levels of immigration and that the current levels make us all worse off.

Now this is where I disagree with you and I think you weaken the case and leave yourself open to the typical lazy defenders of the status quo through the 'racist' and 'little englander' terms.

I am generally in favour of immigration although I do think in all likelihood unskilled / low-skilled immigration has made the low skilled in the UK worse off whilst making most other groups better off by holding down inflation( although how much better off is unclear when the impact on housing costs and intangibles such as NS waits and train over-crowding are taken into account).

My support (ish) for leaving the EU is that on many issues the UK citizens though their elected representatives should be in a position to decide on the policy that the majority of the UK holds to be right. I know in theory European democracy could work this way but in reality accountability is to distant and diffuse for any decisions to be anything other than the options of the political classes, a self selecting group with an inbuilt bias towards European rather than National decision making.

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

I don't see the relevance as to how USA manages its borders.

I'd expect our model for future EU hires would be similar to our current approach to non-EU ones, and the US approach to hiring from outside the US.

The starting salaries link don't seem to fit with your earlier statements

In what way?

I see no support for your view that salaries have been rising 'rapidly' for 'many' years

Trust me, I know what we offer graduates, I know how hard good ones are to find, and I know roughly how many job offers many of them have.

the point is that we should control our own levels of immigration and that the current levels make us all worse off.

Yes, we know that's what you think, now provide the evidence.

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

I'd expect our model for future EU hires would be similar to our current approach to non-EU ones, and the US approach to hiring from outside the US.

In what way?

Trust me, I know what we offer graduates, I know how hard good ones are to find, and I know roughly how many job offers many of them have.



Yes, we know that's what you think, now provide the evidence.

if you know the figures then you can tell me what 'rapidly' means and how many years the rises have been 'rapidly'

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

not really sure the points you are trying to make.
with control over our own borders I don't see the relevance as to how USA manages its borders.

The starting salaries link don't seem to fit with your earlier statements and I see no support for your view that salaries have been rising 'rapidly' for 'many' years
how rapidly is 'rapidly' 10 - 15% per year
and how many is 'many' 10 -20 years?


the point is that we should control our own levels of immigration and that the current levels make us all worse off.

Really?

I would say a lot of people who own property in London feel they have done pretty well out of immigration, a lot of employers do too.

I fully accept that there are winners and losers out of immigration, but lets not try to make out that all types of immigration makes everyone worse off, its a nonsense argument.

I live in London and its never knowingly affected my life in a particularly negative way, I accept from reading on here that I am very much in a minority, but its really not an issue that bothers me too much either way.

Getting young economically active people who are actively seeking work into the UK isn't the worst fate that could befall a country imho.

At a broad generalisation level I would agree though that non-EU immigration generally has a different nature and on balance fewer economic benefits.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

Really?

I would say a lot of people who own property in London feel they have done pretty well out of immigration, a lot of employers do too.

I fully accept that there are winners and losers out of immigration, but lets not try to make out that all types of immigration makes everyone worse off, its a nonsense argument.

I live in London and its never knowingly affected my life in a particularly negative way, I accept from reading on here that I am very much in a minority, but its really not an issue that bothers me too much either way.

Getting young economically active people who are actively seeking work into the UK isn't the worst fate that could befall a country imho.

At a broad generalisation level I would agree though that non-EU immigration generally has a different nature and on balance fewer economic benefits.

there are, indeed, winners and losers :

the massive increase in house prices in London/SE is a real plus for the largely older people and the vast number and range of restaurants is a plus for us all.
However, the inability for younger people to be able to afford a modest family size houses is a massive loss to the quality of life of those people.

I wasn't judging the immigration levels by the standard that worse things could happen
nor do I share you view about non EU migrants

I don't share the view that, in general, immigrants bring any significant economic benefits.
In addition to reducing the housing standards of many of the people, they increase the stain on our infrastructure, increase overcrowding on our transports systems, make access to NHS worse etc.
Please don't remind me that the NHS have a large number of foreign staff : I am not against foreigners in any way and support the immigration of those that are useful to us but not, the general, the levels of we have experienced over he last few years.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

He'll have to go you know if he loses the referendum.

He's already said he won't resign.

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

if you know the figures then you can tell me what 'rapidly' means and how many years the rises have been 'rapidly'

Over 5% a year over the last five years and rate increasing if anything. Go back to start of the decade and Comp Sci and EEng grad salaries were £22k-£24k but are now £30k with pressure towards £32k as offering £30k and £31k are likely to see a fair fraction take up other offers. Of course, it's a little higher down south.

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

I don't share the view that, in general, immigrants bring any significant economic benefits.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

Over 5% a year over the last five years and rate increasing if anything. Go back to start of the decade and Comp Sci and EEng grad salaries were £22k-£24k but are now £30k with pressure towards £32k as offering £30k and £31k are likely to see a fair fraction take up other offers. Of course, it's a little higher down south.

Ok
2010 was in the middle of a recession so I guess a good starting point to judge a 'rapidly' rising wage.
Any in the longer term, engineering salaries rising faster than the norm must be a good thing for the future of the country and the future of engineering.