Corbynomics: A Dystopia

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

Higher than UK average salary on day 1, with decent rises twice a year for the first few years, stock options, decent pension scheme, health care, critical illness cover, etc. Where people go after this is down to them, but a management track can see six figures for very good people.



We don't want cheap labour, nor an infinite supply, just enough to prevent us from having to offshore this development.



Sadly the UK culture seems to be to drop hard subjects ASAP and STEM subjects are seen as hard. Pay has been rising rapidly for many years due to the shortage of skilled workers that I've described, but it doesn't seem to be pulling more people through university.

If we couldn't recruit bright people from around the EU, we'd be stuffed. If in future we're prevented from hiring beyond the limited talent pool in the UK, we'll simply open more overseas offices and the work will leave the UK.

TBH if it came to that, I'd probably accept that UKIP and others trying to present the acceptable face of racism (sorry, it doesn't have one!) had won and leave the country myself. They can remain here, wave their flags, smoke their fags, and fester in their own juices.

Why not set a test for your bright graduates (either UK or foreign)

ask them to speculate how an independent country which has complete control of its immigration policy would recruit from overseas?
Hint : that includes the whole world and not just the EU.

some of the brighters ones may also observe that the is quite a lot of room between 600,000 immigrants a year and a few 10s of thousand ones who have essential skills.

I believe the people of the UK would be better off if the population was limited : quality of life would be better for the majority.

If pay has been rising rapidly for many years and its now 30k then it must have been very poor a few years back which possibly accounts for its poor image and perception of good pay.

michaels

And that is the point, if we are outside the EU if we want to we can take in more migrants than we do now, fewer or the same number but from a different mix of countries but as an electorate we get to choose rather than having some one like Angela Merkel (who I am not able to vote for or against) choose to admit a large number of people into the union who will then have freedom to travel within the union.

Filo25

michaels wrote: »

And that is the point, if we are outside the EU if we want to we can take in more migrants than we do now, fewer or the same number but from a different mix of countries but as an electorate we get to choose rather than having some one like Angela Merkel (who I am not able to vote for or against) choose to admit a large number of people into the union who will then have freedom to travel within the union.

The bit I struggle with on this one, is why a load of refugees would wait for a year in Germany to get EU citizenship, presumably build some roots there, hopefully get jobs, (it is after all one of the more successful European economies), learn the language and then suddenly all of them decide that the UK is the place for them to live after they get citizenship.

I'm not denying some may, but I suspect it won't be a particularly large number.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

The bit I struggle with on this one, is why a load of refugees would wait for a year in Germany to get EU citizenship, presumably build some roots there, hopefully get jobs, (it is after all one of the more successful European economies), learn the language and then suddenly all of them decide that the UK is the place for them to live after they get citizenship.

I'm not denying some may, but I suspect it won't be a particularly large number.

of course sensible people doubted that Poles etc would want to come here in any significant numbers 10-20,000 were expected

michaels

Filo25 wrote: »

The bit I struggle with on this one, is why a load of refugees would wait for a year in Germany to get EU citizenship, presumably build some roots there, hopefully get jobs, (it is after all one of the more successful European economies), learn the language and then suddenly all of them decide that the UK is the place for them to live after they get citizenship.

I'm not denying some may, but I suspect it won't be a particularly large number.

Even if it is only 1 that is 1 that I can not use my vote to express an opionion in favour or against.

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course sensible people doubted that Poles etc would want to come here in any significant numbers 10-20,000 were expected

With all due respect I would really put the prospect of living and working in Poland just after joining the EU, on a par with living and working in Germany now!

Filo25

michaels wrote: »

Even if it is only 1 that is 1 that I can not use my vote to express an opionion in favour or against.

Indeed you can, just as I can vote to stay due to the sudden realisation that I will probably lose my job in the medium term if we leave the EU!

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

how an independent country which has complete control of its immigration policy would recruit from overseas?

You mean like the US does? I do recruit non-US people to work in my US teams and it's a bureaucratic nightmare of immense proportions, costs a fortune, takes ages, and the person you recruit is very limited regards changing jobs, bringing in family, etc.

No thanks.

Hint : that includes the whole world and not just the EU.

I also recruit people from outside the EU to work in the UK, and it's not quite as bad as the US, but is getting worse with every passing year.

If employers are forced to do that for nearly everyone (due to limited supply in UK) then they'll probably just not bother with UK offices.

If pay has been rising rapidly for many years and its now 30k then it must have been very poor a few years back which possibly accounts for its poor image and perception of good pay.

Or maybe some people just don't understand graduate starting salaries.

http://www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course sensible people doubted that Poles etc would want to come here in any significant numbers 10-20,000 were expected

As I was interviewing Polish people on the run up to this, I'd have definitely put the number much higher!

Interestingly, quite a few have now returned to Poland, and we now have an engineering centre over there where a lot of Poles who worked for us in the UK now beaver away, and a number of others have joined them.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

With all due respect I would really put the prospect of living and working in Poland just after joining the EU, on a par with living and working in Germany now!

I was drawing attention to the estimates for Poles and the reality. 10 of thousand as opposed to the eventual million.

I assume you correctly predicted the million migrants that entered Germany last year prior to the event.

I would say the the UK would be a very attractive destination if it were available.

In any event the substantive point is the the level of immigration, irrespective of where they come from, reduces our standard and quality of life.