5 UKPC parking tickets on my motorbike outside my house up on the curb

societys_child

Second link
https://www.flickr.com/photos/134909230@N05/20624418409/in/datetaken/

The_Deep

I would say that parking that bike there is unsociable and likely to annoy the neighbours. Imagine if the other three occupants of the block patkrd bikes there.
What do others think?

Guys_Dad

I would challenge them on the basis that they are exceeding their authority and that it is impossible to display a permit on a motorcycle anyway. If you parked in a bay, not only would you be taking up a parking space that a car could use, but you could not securely display your permit, so they have you in a catch-22.

You are clearly on a pavement/walkway and I would also ask the management company about the remit of the PPC.

peter_the_piper

The_Deep wrote: »

I would say that parking that bike there is unsociable and likely to annoy the neighbours. Imagine if the other three occupants of the block patkrd bikes there.
What do others think?

Looking at the pics there would be room for 3 bikes and you could still get in the door. Anyway he's not been targeted for unsociability but for some idea that the ppc runs the grass as well. Assuming there is no other parking for bikes he is doing them a favour by releasing a space for a car. He really needs to check with the management company to see just how far the ppc is entitled to go.

Kevok6

So the 28 days is up tomorrow for the first parking ticket I got so I am going to send off my appeal to POPLA this evening. so far I have;
1) Cannot display permit on a bike
2) Not taking up a space by parking there
3) Neighbours are happy to let me park there - Not blocking anything like the entrance


Other points:
The point made previously "A killer appeal point is that if the parking is for permit holders only then the OP cannot be liable for any damages for a breach of any contract as one cannot enter into a contract to do something that is forbidden i.e. park without a permit." - I'm thinking we have one permit between the three of us at home so I'm guessing all 3 of us are under that contract.

I will write it in 3rd person.

Should I add the photo of my bike parked there?

I got a reply from DVLA saying that UKPC didnt look for my details at all. They got my details when I appealed to UKPC online though, I had to give my address and all that. The tickets were just left on my bike.

I got more POPLA codes but have another while until I need to appeal to POPLA with them

Anyone got any tips?
Thanks a million folks!!

Herzlos

I would be more severe than 2 "Not taking up a space by parking there". I'd be saying "The bike wasn't in the car park managed by UKPC, so UKPC have no authority to issue invoices."

You should also use the usual POPLA points - you don't believe UKPC has landowner authority to issue tickets, the signage is insufficient so no contract was entered into, and the amount requested is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss but a disguised penalty.

It also doesn't matter who has a permit, this is unrelated to the permit. The signage says "no unauthorized parking"; they are claiming your bike is parked contrary to the contract (which you will argue isn't in place, because the signage isn't sufficient to form a contract), in which case they can only ask for damages (£0). There's no core term in the signage allowing you to violate the terms for a fee.

So your appeal points are:

1. The bike was not in the car park, no jurisdiction
2. UKPC doesn't have proprietary interest in the car park, not sufficient landowner authorization to enforce parking
3. The sum requested is neither a core term nor a genuine pre-estimate of loss, therefore is a disguised penalty and not applicable.
4. The signage is insufficiently clear to form a contract in the first place.
5. Since there's no way to securely attach a permit to a bike, your contract is materially frustrated.
6. There is no registered keeper liability, since POFA2012 was not adhered to.

You don't need to bother with the mitigation / non-legal arguments - they won't be considered. You want to attack the core basis of their invoice - they that have no right whatsoever to issue it.

If you wanted you could highlight the absurdity of the situation and ask if you would be given an invoice for putting a plant pot at your front door?

Did you find out who owns the land at your door, and if the management agents have given UKPC authority to enforcing parking outside of the car park?

Kevok6

Thanks Herzlos... if you look at the link to the photo in this thread (I cant post links unfortunately) , do you think the signage is still insufficient? it states that you need to be parked in a bay and my bike was on the kerb (so wasnt in a bay?)

Herzlos

Well firstly your bike wasn't parked "outside of a bay", it was parked "outside of the car park".

Looking at the angle of the photo, the sign is pretty high up? I'm assuming it's also essentially unreadable from most of the car park? What does the sign look like from where the bike is, or from the entrance to the car park?
I don't see it in the picture with the bike, so you'd need to violate the terms on the sign by parking to then go and read the sign, so it's invalid.

The BPA has guidelines on the placement of signs, wording to be used and the font size, and you can be certain that sign violates all of them.

It also says "failure to comply will result in a £100 parking charge" which isn't allowed - it's not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. You can't agree to pay £100 for doing something that isn't allowed. There's also no way for you to pay the fee.

Claim everything is invalid and make them prove it meets the guidelines. Any failure on their part sinks the whole thing.

Kevok6

Excellent, thanks a million. The bike is actually behind that sign so no sign can be read if standing at my bike, I do drive past it though. There's a few other signs around that are the same size but yeah they are all high up and hard to read. There's no sign upon entrance to the car park, only once you enter.

Herzlos

If you can't read them on the way past (hint; you can't. If you could read them, they couldn't entrap anyone), then they don't form a contract. In order for a contract to be formed the signage must be clear and unmissable.

It'll certainly help if you point out exactly why they are non conforming (too high, too small, too unclear, poorly located).

Your main point should be that you aren't even in the car park though. I'd also be sending the BPA a complaint about it "Dear BPA, UKPC have been issuing me parking tickets for a vehicle that is in an area out of their jurisdiction" to make a bit of noise.