MSE News: Calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 to be clearer, but prices vary wildly

niftyone

michaels wrote: »

How about services like 18185, are these also consigned to history?

Its a pay monthly account whatever way you use it.

Indirect access is still available via a number of landline suppliers.

If you dont use indirect access they only offer access via a freephone or 020 number . Your not required to call a service type number to use this ,so why should they charge an access fee.

They might well change the cost of calls to 0845/0870 though.

zagfles

michaels wrote: »

But calling abroad via an 0844 number that currently costs 1p/minute from a BT line will in future cost 10.58p/minute? Bit of a hike isn't it?

Presumably that has just killed the business model of all these call services

Pretty much. But then with the likes of Skype, are they really needed any more? We can make video calls to New Zealand for free, who'd have thought that 20 years ago? Yet the telecom companies are still in dark ages and want to charge us a fortune for calling abroad, which is the only reason for the callthrough services existing in the first place.

Meanwhile, http://www.saynoto0870.com is going to become an even more invaluable website.

oldharryrocks

zagfles wrote: »

Pretty much. But then with the likes of Skype, are they really needed any more? We can make video calls to New Zealand for free, who'd have thought that 20 years ago? Yet the telecom companies are still in dark ages and want to charge us a fortune for calling abroad, which is the only reason for the callthrough services existing in the first place.

Meanwhile, http://www.saynoto0870.com is going to become an even more invaluable website.

Cheap call services solely using 084/087 service numbers will suffer. Those that offer alternative ways of paying will continue to flourish.EG Prepaid Accounts.Pay Monthly etc etc.

If anything Say No To 0870 will become less important. As more and more companies switch to 01/02/03 ,and Mobile 0800/0808 Freephone users want need to look for alternatives.Also services like https://www.0800buster.co.uk will not be required.

zagfles

oldharryrocks wrote: »

Cheap call services solely using 084/087 service numbers will suffer. Those that offer alternative ways of paying will continue to flourish.EG Prepaid Accounts.Pay Monthly etc etc.

If anything Say No To 0870 will become less important. As more and more companies switch to 01/02/03 ,and Mobile 0800/0808 Freephone users want need to look for alternatives.Also services like www.0800buster.co.uk will not be required.

Well it's good news if it shifts companies off 084/087 numbers, but I'm not sure it will. Most travel/transport companies still seem to use 084/087 numbers, I've used the saynoto0870 site several times in the past few weeks to get alternative numbers.

It might even make their prices sound cheaper, eg "1p/min service charge" instead of "1p/min from a BT landline other operators may vary, mobiles will be considerably more" etc.

Of course they won't actually be cheaper, they'll be much more expensive.

Ian011

Many users of 084 and 087 numbers deny that they receive a financial benefit from incoming calls.

The new system requires that not only do they declare that do, but exactly how much it is.

Where sales lines impose a Service Charge on callers, customers have the option to shop elsewhere and should do so.

Businesses now have three clear options for the type of non-geographic number they use for their business.

080 - calls are free from landlines and from mobiles

030, 033, 034, 037 - calls cost the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers and count towards inclusive allowances on landlines and mobiles

084, 087, 090, 091, 098 - calls incur an Access Charge to the benefit of the caller's provider and a Service Charge to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider.

There's no more 'calls cost X from BT', no more 'local rate' (hasn't existed since 2004) and no more confusion about how the call cost is split.

Post sales helplines for retailers, traders and passenger transport companies must use numbers starting 01, 02, 03 or 080.

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

Most users of 084 and 087 numbers deny that they receive a financial benefit from incoming calls.

I know a small company who use an 084/7 number and don't receive any financial benefit, they use it for routing, they can divert to whoever's on call, and their service provider presumably takes all the kickback.

The new system requires that not only do they declare that do, but exactly how much it is.

Where sales lines impose a Service Charge on callers, customers have the option to shop elsewhere and should do so.

Plenty of companies already charge more for phone sales than they do for internet sales through a specific extra charge, so having to declare a "service charge" on the phone call won't put them off, it might even encourage them.

Businesses now have three clear options for the type of non-geographic number they use for their business.

080 - calls are free from landlines and from mobiles

030, 033, 034, 037 - calls cost the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers and count towards inclusive allowances on landlines and mobiles

084, 087, 090, 091, 098 - calls incur an Access Charge to the benefit of the caller's provider and a Service Charge to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider.

There's no more 'calls cost X from BT', no more 'local rate' (hasn't existed since 2004) and no more confusion about how the call cost is split.

I doubt many callers care how the call is split, they care what the total cost is. Which will be vastly different depending on whether the caller is using BT, TalkTalk, Vodafone, or EE, and vastly more for 084/087 numbers.

For 084 numbers in most cases the access charge alone is much higher than the current charge!

The whole thing is a complete mess, they should have just mandated the telco charges the same as a normal number (included in packages etc) and the service charge is the only additional charge the customer pays. Why does it cost the telco more to terminate an 08 number than a 03 number? OK they need to act as a revenue collector for the service provider, but they could pay them arrears (say a couple of months - after the customer has paid the bill) which could help they cashflow/earn them a bit of interest, and this would also help prevent fraud on these numbers as payment can be stopped.

Ian011

zagfles wrote: »

I know a small company who use an 084/7 number and don't receive any financial benefit

If they are not receiving the benefit as cash, they receive it as a discount off the call-handling and forwarding services provided by the non-geographic number provider, as a discount off their bill for outgoing calls, or as a discount off some other services provided.

zerog

I don't care who is receiving what or whether anyone makes a profit from certain numbers. I just want to know what a number will cost without having to add and multiply fractions of pennies, and I want all numbers where I am not receiving a service on the phone there and then to be free if I have paid for an inclusive package.

Video calling to NZ is only free if you've paid for unlimited usage, but I guess most people do and they would just use voice Skype if they didn't.

Ian011

zerog wrote: »

I want all numbers where I am not receiving a service on the phone there and then to be free if I have paid for an inclusive package.

That will be the case from 1 July 2015. Calls to numbers starting 01, 02, 03, 071-075 and 077-079 will be inclusive and calls to numbers starting 080 and 116 will be free.

The exceptions are that calls to numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man are rarely inclusive and calls to mobiles from landlines are just beginning to become inclusive.

Call costs for calls to numbers starting 084, 087, 090, 091, 098 and 118 include an additional charge for the service delivered by the organisation that you called.

Organisations using numbers starting 084 and 087 and who cannot justify imposing a Service Charge on callers can move to the matching numbers starting 034 or 037. Ofcom made these numbers available in 2007 for this purpose.

victor2

The whole issue of 084 and 087 numbers is a mess and doesn't show any signs of improving. Personally, I will not do any business with organisations using such numbers unless I can find an alternative 01, 02 or 03 number. If I do have no choice but to call an 0845 number, such as a government body, I make it very very clear when I get through to them that I object to paying above my standard cost for the call and want to keep it as short as possible. The few that say "it's just the same as a local call" get put right most succinctly!