1st Diesel car - avoid supermarket fuel?

wrightk

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

Well you said it , you seem to think your opinion is the only one that should prevail , don't be so pompous !

Err if your going to quote me to try and make a point you could at least quote me and not someone else!
Have you ever driven my car?no. Pompous is telling someone you dont know or have never driven their car how it runs on different fuels.i simply gave my opinion based onmy personal experience. reinforces my point really about the attitude of some people when they try telling you how your car runs without even seeing it!

Minrich

Paradigm wrote: »

No, it doesn't. The additive in Shell Nitro is a detergent as I previously posted.. nothing more. Shell don't make any claims, as far as I can see, that their fuel "burns hotter" or better than anyone elses but that it helps keep the engine clean(er). That's it!
Ok over a period of time this may be a benefit but not one you will see by using the odd tankfull.


If you compare the product data sheets for both Shell Nitro diesel & Greenergy diesel you will notice that they are virtually identical in specs... both conforming to EN 590 with nothing extra.

So Nitro has the same octane rating as standard fuel or has it a higher rating ? My understanding is that it is about 99 Ron ....... My analogy about fire was meant to show an example of how adding something to a standard product changes the effect , nothing to do with fuel burning hotter , just how a bit of wood would burn differently if an accelerant was added .....Same with fuel if you put in an additive it works differently . Perhaps the wrong example to use !
EDIT ..... We are talking about diesel , i forgot that ! My references relate to petrol ! Sorry

colino

Just to add some facts to the blather, diesel fuel has always, because of its burning characteristics produced more soot. That has meant things like the engine oil has needed more detergents (the reason it goes black so quickly) and ancient ones you could actually see the plumes of soot blowing through the exhaust. With the drive over the past few decades to make, "economical" diesels perform as well as their petrol counterparts, you now need even more expensive engine oil and various bolt-ons and chemicals to make them appear as clean. This has now got to the stage where the diesel engine, through design, is actually producing even finer soot. The particulates are smaller so as not to offend our eyes, but ironically they are more easily absorbed by human lung tissue.
All UK fuel has to meet minimum standards (amongst others, their octane rating for petrol or cetane rating for diesel) and with modern ecu controlled performance, unless you are on a rolling road you are not going to detect any difference behind the steering wheel while the car adjusts itself to whatever you have put in the tank. Additionally, more than half of all UK fuel is now retailed through Supermarket filling stations. Benefits to them are taking advantage of fuel spot prices, benefits to us are their modern facilities, very regular re-supplies and rarely any of the old or contaminated fuel storage problems.
I applaud premium pricing by the marketeers, just goes to show that some marketing principles continue to work.

motorguy

Minrich wrote: »

So Nitro has the same octane rating as standard fuel or has it a higher rating ? My understanding is that it is about 99 Ron ....... My analogy about fire was meant to show an example of how adding something to a standard product changes the effect , nothing to do with fuel burning hotter , just how a bit of wood would burn differently if an accelerant was added .....Same with fuel if you put in an additive it works differently . Perhaps the wrong example to use !
EDIT ..... We are talking about diesel , i forgot that ! My references relate to petrol ! Sorry

Diesel doesnt have a RON rating in the way that petrol does.

motorguy

colino wrote: »

Just to add some facts to the blather, diesel fuel has always, because of its burning characteristics produced more soot. That has meant things like the engine oil has needed more detergents (the reason it goes black so quickly) and ancient ones you could actually see the plumes of soot blowing through the exhaust. With the drive over the past few decades to make, "economical" diesels perform as well as their petrol counterparts, you now need even more expensive engine oil and various bolt-ons and chemicals to make them appear as clean. This has now got to the stage where the diesel engine, through design, is actually producing even finer soot. The particulates are smaller so as not to offend our eyes, but ironically they are more easily absorbed by human lung tissue.
All UK fuel has to meet minimum standards (amongst others, their octane rating for petrol or cetane rating for diesel) and with modern ecu controlled performance, unless you are on a rolling road you are not going to detect any difference behind the steering wheel while the car adjusts itself to whatever you have put in the tank. Additionally, more than half of all UK fuel is now retailed through Supermarket filling stations. Benefits to them are taking advantage of fuel spot prices, benefits to us are their modern facilities, very regular re-supplies and rarely any of the old or contaminated fuel storage problems.
I applaud premium pricing by the marketeers, just goes to show that some marketing principles continue to work.

Whilst i'm in total agreement with the above, the possible exception may be engines that are designed to run on high rated RON fuels.

If they run on standard fuel, a modern engine will retard the timing to compensate, thus reducing BHP.

An older engine may "pink" on lower rated RON fuel than its designed for and sustained use could cause damage.

That may be detectable in every day driving, dependent on the car

Conversely, running your car on a higher rated RON fuel if it doesnt need it, wont see the BHP increase.

scaredofdebt

Never had a problem with supermarket fuels myself but I get slightly better MPG if I use Shell diesel. My advice is to keep a record of your MPG and see if the premium fuels give better economy and therefore worth paying the extra for.

almillar

anotherbaldrick:

All i know is that my VW TDI runs fine on shell or BP but lumpy on other outlets including supermarket. Why I have no idea.

See there's a problem with this test - it could be psycological.
You need to do a BLIND test. As in someone else fills it up, then you drive it, and decide what it's running on. I'd also say that you'd need to do a couple of tanks at a time the same brand, and even maybe reset the ECU, if it's anything like petrol, as the ECU runs to what it's got, and you could have old stuff sloshing around.

For petrol there absolutely IS a benefit for higher octane fuels in CERTAIN cars - read your manual. For diesel it's not as clear cut. But if a manufacturer told me I couldn't use standard diesel I'd buy a different car!

motorguy

almillar wrote: »

anotherbaldrick:


See there's a problem with this test - it could be psycological.
You need to do a BLIND test. As in someone else fills it up, then you drive it, and decide what it's running on. I'd also say that you'd need to do a couple of tanks at a time the same brand, and even maybe reset the ECU, if it's anything like petrol, as the ECU runs to what it's got, and you could have old stuff sloshing around.

For petrol there absolutely IS a benefit for higher octane fuels in CERTAIN cars - read your manual. For diesel it's not as clear cut. But if a manufacturer told me I couldn't use standard diesel I'd buy a different car!

+1

Its either psycological, used for bragging rights (oh my car simply must use premium diesel) or theres something wrong with the car.

No way a newish VW should run lumpy on regular pump diesel.

I stick a millers additive into my diesel no matter where i fill up in my current diesel car, but thats in the vain hope thats its keeping the injectors clean as they're pricey to replace and its a relatively old car

kevinc2

Having just caused 3k worth damage to my Ford Focus ST with Diesel contaminated with water at a Tesco filling station I would strongly agree! Car has only done 8.5k and is 8 months old, Tesco will not accept liability either as I am the only one who has complained. Currently seeking consequently loses vis supply of goods & services act

Minrich

kevinc2 wrote: »

Having just caused 3k worth damage to my Ford Focus ST with Diesel contaminated with water at a Tesco filling station I would strongly agree! Car has only done 8.5k and is 8 months old, Tesco will not accept liability either as I am the only one who has complained. Currently seeking consequently loses vis supply of goods & services act

There would have been more than one problem if their fuel was contaminated , wouldn't there ? You'll have to prove their fuel was contaminated which will be nearly impossible.