Cyclist v Motorist that's actually worth watching

Ashingtonian

Mercdriver wrote: »

Can you back that up with actual facts and figures - and no newspaper reports don't count.

No I can't, but I imagine that I'm not far wide of the mark. The motorist is always seen as the aggressor simply because they have the potential to do more damage than their "opponent" the cyclist.

Look at the rear of the vast majority of HGVs and Buses now, usually they have a large sticker on the nearside stating "Cyclist do not pass on the inside".

Spate of cyclist deaths in London recently and in just about every case it has been a cyclist undertaking a large vehicle whilst it is turning left. However as usual the PC brigade like to blame the driver for the cyclists stupidity.

ChumLee

Mercdriver wrote: »

Can you back that up with actual facts and figures - and no newspaper reports don't count.

Custardy says so, what other facts could you possibly need? He's even go as far as saying it's ok to call someone a clint if you ride a bike it's not a crime.

custardy

Ashingtonian wrote: »

No I can't, but I imagine that I'm not far wide of the mark. The motorist is always seen as the aggressor simply because they have the potential to do more damage than their "opponent" the cyclist.

Look at the rear of the vast majority of HGVs and Buses now, usually they have a large sticker on the nearside stating "Cyclist do not pass on the inside".

Spate of cyclist deaths in London recently and in just about every case it has been a cyclist undertaking a large vehicle whilst it is turning left. However as usual the PC brigade like to blame the driver for the cyclists stupidity.

Really? Who is this PC brigade and are you saying drivers were wrongfully charged/convicted?
I think a look in this thread alone will prove you wrong on who is 'always' at fault.

As for the danger of massive vehicles mixing with much smaller and vulnerable road users.
Is the answer blame?
Or shall we be grown up and realise technology and road design is the answer?
Why are tipper lorries so common in such incidents?

Minrich

Or peoples riding and driving abilities need to improve . Watching some cyclists in London recently no wonder they get wiped out if what we saw was a reflection of what they are like . If you go elsewhere in the world where there is more cycle/moped/motorcycle use there are many more people killed , generally in the far east/india where no safety equipment is worn , whatever form of transport they are riding . We will never resolve the cyclist being vulnerable unless there are cycle only lanes everywhere . Stopping the commuting madness that occurs everyday into London where the attraction is Money would help , stopping cars entering town centres another . But all that is pie in the sky ideas and will never happen .

custardy

Minrich wrote: »

Or peoples riding and driving abilities need to improve . Watching some cyclists in London recently no wonder they get wiped out if what we saw was a reflection of what they are like . If you go elsewhere in the world where there is more cycle/moped/motorcycle use there are many more people killed , generally in the far east/india where no safety equipment is worn , whatever form of transport they are riding . We will never resolve the cyclist being vulnerable unless there are cycle only lanes everywhere . Stopping the commuting madness that occurs everyday into London where the attraction is Money would help , stopping cars entering town centres another . But all that is pie in the sky ideas and will never happen .

You are talking about certain parts of the world. Not all of the world.
Or is the UK the pinnacle of safety?
Its from the ground up. New roads/paths/pavements are designed with no thought for anything but motorised traffic flow.

Johno100

custardy wrote: »

You are talking about certain parts of the world. Not all of the world.
Or is the UK the pinnacle of safety?
Its from the ground up. New roads/paths/pavements are designed with no thought for anything but motorised traffic flow.

On nearly every measure the UK is near the top for road safety. For instance the chosen land of the Netherlands so lauded by the lycra lovies actually has more cycling deaths per annum than the UK.

custardy

Johno100 wrote: »

On nearly every measure the UK is near the top for road safety. For instance the chosen land of the Netherlands so lauded by the lycra lovies actually has more cycling deaths per annum than the UK.

Would you care to add context to that stat?
The irony of mentioning lycra (for that wonderfully balanced view you have)in relation to a culture where bike use is an integrated part of their day to day life.

Johno100

custardy wrote: »

Would you care to add context to that stat?
The irony of mentioning lycra (for that wonderfully balanced view you have)in relation to a culture where bike use is an integrated part of their day to day life.

Context? I should also add that for a country that supposedly embraces "cycling for the masses" the Netherlands has higher motor vehicle ownership per capita than the UK.

RichardD1970

Johno100 wrote: »

Context? I should also add that for a country that supposedly embraces "cycling for the masses" the Netherlands has higher motor vehicle ownership per capita than the UK.

Well that's as maybe, but that doesn't mean that they use them more for day to day transport,

Cycling is a ubiquitous mode of transport in the Netherlands, with 31% of the people listing the bike as their main mode of transport for daily activities. Cycling has a modal share of 27% of all trips (urban and rural) nationwide. In cities this is even higher, such as Amsterdam which has 38%, though the smaller Dutch cities well exceed that: for instance Zwolle (pop. ~123,000) has 46% and the university town of Groningen (pop. ~198,000) has 59%, possibly the highest modal share in the world.

As for your statement that there are more cycling deaths there than here, well that stands to reason (due to the much higher usage of cycling for everyday transport) and without qualification is meaningless. Is that deaths per capita? deaths per cyclist? deaths per mile ridden or what?

Of course there is little point trying to debate the subject with you as you are well known for you're vehemently anti-cycling stance.

I drive, cycle (motor and pedal) walk and run and my view is that there are plenty of selfish, arrogant, ignorant a-holes and a mode of transport doesn't change their attitude much. A-holes are still a-holes regardless!

Minrich

Some may even be on this forum ?