Children Limit:

missapril75

FBaby wrote: »

What you are leaving out though is that these parents didn't expect to have two cars even when they didn't both drive, they didn't expect to have new washing machines, large fridges, huge leather sofas, TVs, stereos and other gadgets, or to go on foreign holidays. These used to be what they aspired to get and saw as rewards for the hard work they put in. Nowadays, youngsters believe they are entitled to all these before they secure a decent job.

If they started more modestly, maybe they would find that they don't need mum and dad to help with essential bills.

I left that out? Of course. I'm making the case that parents of their adult offspring are less able to help them out than those of a couple of decades ago for a variety of reasons.

The reason for them needing or wanting help is a different argument and a fair one. And a familiar one.

I remember my parents saying stuff like that. I have to admit it amused me when they'd complain about young people wanting this, that and the other. It amused me because I remember my grandparents in their terraced house with their outside toilet; not having a fridge and standing a bottle of milk in a bowl of cold water; the fire; bed warmer etc

Meanwhile, my parents had central heating in all rooms (even the toilet), carpets (even a fitted one!), driveway, garage...

I wonder if my grandparents thought "young people, eh..." or did they just recognise that people generally have better things than those that came before and consider it progress.

zagfles

missapril75 wrote: »

I didn't. I responded. Perhaps you missed it.:)

I said a very small minority of students of very well paid parents didn't get them because parental contributions were assessed as enough.

And before that you said they were universal. Look up. Right there, and bolded in post #27.

Are you going for the record of the most rubbish in a single thread? Or the most U-turns :rotfl:

tomxlisa

I do hope some kind of limit comes in as I know people who have kids they got three at the moment and they are due to have another, live off benefits and are more comfortable than we are working, makes me angry, and I know with the other child coming it will only mean extra benefits if no limit is brought in, I think the limit should be one maybe two kids at the max.

rogerblack

tomxlisa wrote: »

I do hope some kind of limit comes in as I know people who have kids they got three at the moment and they are due to have another, live off benefits and are more comfortable than we are working, makes me angry, and I know with the other child coming

Do you really believe the sort of people you outline (neglecting for a moment how common or not the stereotype is) will reliably manage to not have another child?

And whatever you believe about the behavior of the parents, do you believe that child should be brought up in poverty, and be much, much more likely to go on to a criminal future?

tomtontom

rogerblack wrote: »

Do you really believe the sort of people you outline (neglecting for a moment how common or not the stereotype is) will reliably manage to not have another child?

And whatever you believe about the behavior of the parents, do you believe that child should be brought up in poverty, and be much, much more likely to go on to a criminal future?

This poverty word is used far too often nowadays. It used to mean destitution, no money to eat/ clothe/ heat etc, now it means not having enough to pay the Sky bill or buy the latest trainers. Even with a cap on child related benefits, those with children will never be in true poverty in this country.

missapril75

zagfles wrote: »

And before that you said they were universal. Look up. Right there, and bolded in post #27.

They were. You qualified because you were a student. The amount might vary. Exceptionally it might be zero but the greater majority were full or close to.
Are you familiar with the word context?

missapril75

tomtontom wrote: »

This poverty word is used far too often nowadays. It used to mean destitution, no money to eat/ clothe/ heat etc, now it means not having enough to pay the Sky bill or buy the latest trainers. Even with a cap on child related benefits, those with children will never be in true poverty in this country.

I agree it's thrown around too freely these days but not in relation to Sky or trainers. And, yes, there do appear to be families short on essentials while the kid can still go to school in designer stuff - although that may not have been bought by parents of otherwise limited means.

I remember a few ears ago when there was a doubling of the JSA/Income Support rates for children.

It gave people on JSA/IS a big increase in their benefit; it significantly increased Housing Benefit for those not on JSA/IS; it made people previously above HB levels newly entitled to HB; it made people who were previously a bit above JSA/IS newly entitled to JSA/IS and gave extra HB.

Huge gains for those with kids in and around benefit levels. More money. More income.

But because the numbers of JSA/IS recipients went up the headlines were about more children living in poverty because more families were dependent on benefits.

Give people more money and it makes them worse off. :rotfl:

missbiggles1

missapril75 wrote: »

I didn't. I responded. Perhaps you missed it.:)

I said a very small minority of students of very well paid parents didn't get them because parental contributions were assessed as enough.

I apologise, I missed your reply.:o

However, I don't think that it was that small a minority as means testing kicked in so much lower than it does now.

missbiggles1

starrystarry wrote: »

Why do you feel a failure because your lad needs to ask for help? If anything, it's his failure rather than yours, surely.

It is, but I think most parents put their children's failures down to their upbringing, don't you?

missbiggles1

rogerblack wrote: »

Do you really believe the sort of people you outline (neglecting for a moment how common or not the stereotype is) will reliably manage to not have another child?

And whatever you believe about the behavior of the parents, do you believe that child should be brought up in poverty, and be much, much more likely to go on to a criminal future?

I think that practically anybody can avoid having a child these days if they know that having one will be a disaster.