PIP form

melbury

Have just got back from the dreaded PIP assessment:(

I am a bit confused about the computer generated questions they go through, they certainly seem to be skewed in their favour. For example, OH was asked how long can you walk on level ground before needing to stop for a rest - why does it specifically have be level? Also with regard to planning and undertaking a journey, he was asked is there a local shop he could get to alone. That is slightly different to trying to get to a strange place on public transport.

I felt that the questions at the face to face assessment were vastly different to what we had filled in on the original application form - they just seemed to skate over all of the real problems that we had written about. I mean which answers actually count?

Not feeling very confident at all, the whole thing is just so exhausting.

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

For example, OH was asked how long can you walk on level ground before needing to stop for a rest - why does it specifically have be level?

The exact form of questions is limited by law, and interpretation of this by the courts.

The general idea is that it is not your particular circumstances - but how you are able to undertake the tasks compared to a normal person.

For example, it has been found that someone whos culture involves preparation of complex meals as a typical feature is not entitled to PIP on this basis if they can prepare a 'normal' meal.

Similarly - you can't say you can't dress or undress at an acceptable speed - simply because you have chosen to wear something with four hundred buttons.

If it was a non-flat surface - that makes it almost impossible to determine.
For example - my house is in the middle of a 45 acre ploughed field, with no roads on a 45 degree slope.

Therefore I get PIP as I can't move 200m on this surface reliably.

Having said that - 'flat' - is probably further than the legislation goes.
The legislation specifically does not say 'moving around indoors' - where it might be reasonable to assume a totally flat surface.
Normal slopes again - as might be found in your typical town center - not the most steeply sloping street in britain.

See if you can get a copy of the report, and correct it before the decision is made.
This is probably unlikely, as the decision seems to be very soon after the report.
But, you can appeal the decision.

melbury

rogerblack wrote: »

The exact form of questions is limited by law, and interpretation of this by the courts.

The general idea is that it is not your particular circumstances - but how you are able to undertake the tasks compared to a normal person.

For example, it has been found that someone whos culture involves preparation of complex meals as a typical feature is not entitled to PIP on this basis if they can prepare a 'normal' meal.

Similarly - you can't say you can't dress or undress at an acceptable speed - simply because you have chosen to wear something with four hundred buttons.

If it was a non-flat surface - that makes it almost impossible to determine.
For example - my house is in the middle of a 45 acre ploughed field, with no roads on a 45 degree slope.

Therefore I get PIP as I can't move 200m on this surface reliably.

Having said that - 'flat' - is probably further than the legislation goes.
The legislation specifically does not say 'moving around indoors' - where it might be reasonable to assume a totally flat surface.
Normal slopes again - as might be found in your typical town center - not the most steeply sloping street in britain.

See if you can get a copy of the report, and correct it before the decision is made.
This is probably unlikely, as the decision seems to be very soon after the report.
But, you can appeal the decision.

Thank you for your detailed reply Roger.

Do you know if it is possible to ask for a reconsideration with PIP (as you can with ESA) before actually lodging a formal appeal?

I just don't understand why they don't read the detailed responses provided on the form:mad: The questions asked at the face to face just didn't seem to correlate that much with the actual application form.

I explained on the application form that no way could my OH plan and undertake a journey alone on public transport, but as mentioned above, all they asked at the assessment was could he find his way to the local shop (which is just down the road, so of course yes he could).

Is it done like this to ensure that you don't get any points?

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

Do you know if it is possible to ask for a reconsideration with PIP (as you can with ESA) before actually lodging a formal appeal?
<snip>
I explained on the application form that no way could my OH plan and undertake a journey alone on public transport, but as mentioned above, all they asked at the assessment was could he find his way to the local shop (which is just down the road, so of course yes he could).

Is it done like this to ensure that you don't get any points?

I hesitate to say that, but yes.
The DWP and assessment process take the law as enacted, and their only aim is to come to a plausible decision that can be justified by pointing to specific bits of evidence and not considering the whole lot.

They often take the most strict reading of legislation to the point that it is in many cases later found to be unlawful.

The 'find his way to a local shop' - is asking about the 'following a route' question.
It is DWP policy that this does not include actual following the route - merely the ability to plan. There is conflicting law on this.

This is not to say their approach leads to the wrong conclusion in most cases.

melbury

rogerblack wrote: »

I hesitate to say that, but yes.
The DWP and assessment process take the law as enacted, and their only aim is to come to a plausible decision that can be justified by pointing to specific bits of evidence and not considering the whole lot.

They often take the most strict reading of legislation to the point that it is in many cases later found to be unlawful.

The 'find his way to a local shop' - is asking about the 'following a route' question.
It is DWP policy that this does not include actual following the route - merely the ability to plan. There is conflicting law on this.

This is not to say their approach leads to the wrong conclusion in most cases.

Thanks again Roger, it is very hard not to be pessimistic about the outcome.

I have read online that the success rate is only about 36% following face to face assessment.

I was quite surprised it was ATOS, I thought they had been booted out.

OldMotherTucker

melbury wrote: »

Received letter today with a date for a face to face assessment, so undoubtedly it will end up with us having to appeal:(

Having the face-to-face at home nailed it for me.

I have an inflammatory illness which varies from day to day (week to week, month to month) but this was taken into account - as well as the fatigue, depression (who woudn't?:() and the impact of the medication I'm on.

The Atos nurse was very understanding and coaxed me rather a lot - resulting in a more than hoped for award.. She didn't have a computer so it wasn't a case of 'Computer says 'no'!
I didn't fill in the original form as I simply couldn't - and there was no help available within the time frame. My biggest problem is that my illness varies so much - can walk one day but not the next - and I can't convey that easily on paper even when I can write legibly!

Within one week of my F2F, I had my backdated award in the bank:T:T

That was at the end of last year - can't fully tell you how much it's helped and the difference it makes:T

melbury

OldMotherTucker wrote: »

Having the face-to-face at home nailed it for me.

I have an inflammatory illness which varies from day to day (week to week, month to month) but this was taken into account - as well as the fatigue, depression (who woudn't?:() and the impact of the medication I'm on.

The Atos nurse was very understanding and coaxed me rather a lot - resulting in a more than hoped for award.. She didn't have a computer so it wasn't a case of 'Computer says 'no'!
I didn't fill in the original form as I simply couldn't - and there was no help available within the time frame. My biggest problem is that my illness varies so much - can walk one day but not the next - and I can't convey that easily on paper even when I can write legibly!

Within one week of my F2F, I had my backdated award in the bank:T:T

That was at the end of last year - can't fully tell you how much it's helped and the difference it makes:T

That's great, so glad you were successful. It is nice to hear of positive outcomes.

melbury

Just to say that OH received letter yesterday and his claim has been successful - such a relief.

So it just goes to show that it isn't always bad news with these assessments.

Good luck to everyone else who is going through the process.

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

Just to say that OH received letter yesterday and his claim has been successful - such a relief.

So it just goes to show that it isn't always bad news with these assessments.

Good luck to everyone else who is going through the process.

Get a copy of your entire PIP file, in case you may find it useful in the future.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/personal-information-charter

They routinely shred old information, and prior assessments may be very important, as if one finds X, and one finds Y, clearly it is at least arguable that the first is right in some cases.

melbury

rogerblack wrote: »

Get a copy of your entire PIP file, in case you may find it useful in the future.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/personal-information-charter

They routinely shred old information, and prior assessments may be very important, as if one finds X, and one finds Y, clearly it is at least arguable that the first is right in some cases.

Thank you Roger,

So I just click the link and complete the form online and they will send me the file - is that correct? Will it include the medical assessment report?