JSA stopped, no money, no food.. nothing

bestpud

2 litre - The OP has stated they are having trouble getting a new job because they have been dismissed (it's what tends to happen when you tell your boss to p1$$ off!) and they have no reference.

I have made the point if the OP spends a lot of time trying to get JSA reinstated, they will still have no reference and will highly likely still have been fairly dismissed (absence of any evidence it seems, to support any provocation claim). The difference is the situation will be worse as they will have been unmemployed for longer and employers don't like that (even for people with otherwise glowing references).

Plus, should they take the (frankly, terrible) advice and attempt to claim incapacity benefit, based on some long ago held illness, they will have a history of sickness to add to the list of 'employer beware' signs above!

Or worse still, they could get a criminal record to go with the lack or references and dismissal. Great that'd be!!! :rolleyes:

So, no, it may not be easy peasy to get a job but can you not see that wasting time with non-starter claims is not going to help in this case? Of course, if there is evidence of the 'provocation', then there may be more of a case but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

OP - go to the CAB and access some proper advice about your options and then you can make informed decisions. With the best will in the world, no-one on here has the full story at their disposal!

Thriftylad

Well I think it goes without saying really that looking for another job is the main priority here, but the OP is clearly aggrieved about being dismissed and is understandably worried in the short-term about paying for essentials.

I would advise the following:

1) Contact CAB or the Welfare Rights Dept of your local council. They can offer independent advice and conduct a full benefits check for you. The Jobcentre/DWP will not assist you with an appeal or represent you, so it is vital to get independent and impartial advice. Act quickly as you only have a one month period from the date of decision to lodge an appeal. Ask the DWP to send you copies of all evidence that they used to make their decision.

2) Apply for a Crisis Loan, again CAB or Welfare Rights can help with this probably more so than the DWP.

3) Examine your employment contract and see if there is anything in there about the company's grieveance/appeal procedure. Write to the manager above the one who dismissed you saying you wish to use the company's appeals procedure and a failure to respond will result in an application to an Employment Tribunal. You must exhaust all possible avenues to resolve this issue with your former employer before applying to an Employment Tribunal. ET1 forms are available from Jobcentres or again the CAB.

Just a couple of questions about your employment/dismissal:

a) where you in a trade union? If so seek their help.
b) did anyone witness the swearing incident or is it just the manager's word against yours?
c) is the swearing the only incident you were dismissed for or were there other things too?

Swearing at a manager does not seem to be a gross dismissal matter to my mind. A disciplinary matter yes but not gross misconduct matter.

Just for the record, it would seem that a few people on here think it is v easy to go and claim Incapacity Benefit but this is not the case. I think it is a bit condescending to think that GP's, DWP doctors and the DWP decision makers are all gullible fools who just dole out money to anyone with a headache. Its a fairy rigerous process and there are many people out there who are very ill but still fail to qualify for the benefit. Unfortunately no-one gets to hear of all of the underclaimed benefits that never get taken-up because people are too stigmatised or worried that they will be snooped on - this story doesn't make good copy for the Daily Mail.

Anyway, hope some of these points help you.

Hapless_2

Swearing at a manager does not seem to be a gross dismissal matter to my mind. A disciplinary matter yes but not gross misconduct matter.

After being in retail previously for many years, in all of my contracts gross misconduct always included "use of offensive language to other staff members or customers". Offensive language being language used with the intent to offend, whether expletives( P**s/F**k off,), personal remarks (fat b*tch, w******) or racist comments (paki b****d, froggy, kraut, jew-boy) etc.
And yes I worked for Gateway which was bought by the company OP worked for.

Thriftylad

Hapless wrote: »

After being in retail previously for many years, in all of my contracts gross misconduct always included "use of offensive language to other staff members or customers". Offensive language being language used with the intent to offend, whether expletives( P**s/F**k off,), personal remarks (fat b*tch, w******) or racist comments (paki b****d, froggy, kraut, jew-boy) etc.
And yes I worked for Gateway which was bought by the company OP worked for.

Fair comment Hapless but it really depends on what constitutes 'offensive' in this context. The policy has also got to be applied fairly and consistently. If for instance the manager had also been swearing at the OP and he swore back, should they both be dismissed? even if there were just the two of them present, away from the shop floor?

Ultimately it will really depend upon what an Employment Tribunal find is fair or not and to find the answer to this the OP would have to reasearch some case law in this field. Gross dismissal is generally for more severe offences such theft, violence etc. Companies can include anything as a gross dismissal offence but this doesn't mean it will stand up as a fair dismissal before a tribunal.

Hapless_2

Tbh, the OP never said that he was sworn at, just that he swore at his manager. The fact (in the OP eyrs) that he was spoken to in a demeaning manner may have some bearing but it depends on what was said.

Things started to get ontop of me and i swore at the manager and told him what i thought of him. He was speaking to me in a demeaning manner and taking the P**s really, asking me to do more than should be expected as we didnt have any staff (no one wanted to work for him). He fired me for swearing at him.

It also depends on what is deemed as "more than was expected" when store are short staffed for whatever reason, it is normal for other staff to work extra to cover, whether they like it or not.

OP made various claims about what he had to do only after he had been told that swearing= misconduct, and these were againts policy, that should have been brought to H/O attention through normal procedures.

full-time-mum

Lots of places are recruiting extra Xmas staff. Might be a way of getting back in the market, particularly if you would be prepared to work some of the more unsociable hours.

viktory

2_litre wrote: »

yes some great advice and some right garbage "just get another job " just what he wanted to here really if thats the best you could do why bother saying anything at all how many have you "just get another job "have been in this situation ? none i bet

Wrong, I'm afraid. My husband left his job, claimed nothing as he left voluntarily and got another job within 6 weeks. He then left this job as it was unsuitable and got offered another TWO jobs within two weeks.

It is possible if you are prepared to do anything for any money. Better than the advice to commit fraud IMO.

DenBo_4

2_litre wrote: »

yes some great advice and some right garbage "just get another job " just what he wanted to here really if thats the best you could do why bother saying anything at all how many have you "just get another job "have been in this situation ? none i bet

Wrong again. Temping work for over two years is how I got out of my leaving a job I had been in for four years. I never applied for or received JSA, I got a cv and went to all the job agencies, and I received lots of setbacks and "no thankyous", but I managed to keep body and soul together. Temping isn't perfect, lots of times you will be between jobs, no benefits or another job in sight, but hey, it's what people sometimes have to do.

Chrysalis

kaya wrote: »

you swore at your manager, thats gross misconduct, i would have sacked you too, stop complaining and get another job, or is this in the "benefit scrounger wannabee" section?, i have 3 collapsed discs, one slipped disc, osteoarthritis, i spent the last 3 years hating the benefits system and not being able to do a full time job, ive now designed and started my own business just to get off incap benefit,and your problem is?
get a life!!

If he is telling the truth his manager was asking him to break the law by changing the dates on the bread, the swearing is gross misconduct but the circumstances I think are understandable. Also breaking the law on breaks etc.

Chrysalis

viktory wrote: »

Wrong, I'm afraid. My husband left his job, claimed nothing as he left voluntarily and got another job within 6 weeks. He then left this job as it was unsuitable and got offered another TWO jobs within two weeks.

It is possible if you are prepared to do anything for any money. Better than the advice to commit fraud IMO.

Of course not every situation in life is the same to counter what you said, I struggled to find work between jobs a good few years back and I wasnt dimissed from last job for gross misconduct and I did have 2 references, it still took me 3 months to find work. The job I eventually did get was from an interview the job centre gave me, I was really struggling to get interviews.

So whos wrong me or you? neither, it can be possible to regain employment swiftly or it can take a long time, different areas have different work prospects and there is an element of luck involved. I would think with no references and that reason for losing last job its very hard to find work.

What I do agree on is the IB fraud, he shouldnt do that its would be an insult to those who really do need IB, the best advice given was the one to contact CAB and look into crisis loans etc. Even if he did find a job it will be a week or month in hand so needs money to live on in the immediate future.