suggestions for a new car

neil.woos

jase1 wrote: »

Build quality, generally yes. Japanese engineers engineer. German engineers just throw material at the problem.

Load of woo about plastics on the dashboard -- meh.

I think you would find it the other way around. German Engineers engineer. In most cases Japanese usually copy and produce a cheaper replica.


Automotive technology used in BMWs and Mercs are usually a decade ahead compared to cheaper Toyotas, Hyundais, Fords and Vauxhalls.

neil.woos

BMW are usually class leading, especially in the handling department. Lexus, although good cars, usually come up short in most departments. And to compare a Toyota to BMW is stupid, of course the BMW should be better in every area, you're paying the extra price for it.

jase1

neil.woos wrote: »

I think you would find it the other way around. German Engineers engineer. In most cases Japanese usually copy and produce a cheaper replica.

Nope.

Japanese engineering > German engineering at the same price point. EVERY time.

That even applied in the 1970s when the Japanese were guilty of copying. The copies were better than the originals.

Now there just isn't any comparison.

neil.woos

jase1 wrote: »

Nope.

Japanese engineering > German engineering at the same price point. EVERY time.

That's the key thing, "at the same price point."


BMW's are better engineered than Toyotas, just bloody admit it. I don't understand why you find that hard to believe. They're not really competing with one another, the Lexus brand is.

jase1

neil.woos wrote: »

That's the key thing, "at the same price point."


Taking cost out of the equations German Engineering > Japanese Engineering.


BMW's are better engineered than Toyotas, just bloody admit it.

It's a stupid comparison.

And in any case, there is price overlap between BMW and Toyota. 1-series/Mini vs Auris for example. I'm sorry but the latter's basic build quality and reliability -- despite the 'feel' -- is superior to either BMW product.

Any monkey can throw material at a problem and make a car feel more solid -- with corresponding cost. And that's what the Germans have been getting away with for years -- making the stuff you can see look good at the expense of the stuff you can't.

That's why they've got away with throwing crappy French engines in their smaller cars for years. If the owners were that bothered about build quality they wouldn't stand for it.

Samsonite1

Lexus is actually Toyota is it not? It is just their luxury brand, unless Toyota sold it recently.

My last 3 car brands have been Ford, Nissan and BMW (3 series). They are all good if you want to be objective.

I think BMWs are reliable as most cars are these days - they are expensive to repair should you need to - for example, a small rock bounced up from a car on a dirt road and smashed my headlight - it was pretty expensive to get a replacement for that, but I went for genuine BMW as I didn't want two different headlights (BMW used glass instead of plastic).

My Nissan was rock-solid - everyone knows Japanese cars are reliable and I have had two of them without any issues. They do not feel as good as a BMW, but if money is a concern (as it is for many people) then Japanese is worth a go from my experience.

With Fords, I found the Focus had comparable driving enjoyment to the BMW 3 series with excellent handling (the entry level Focus has been used for training rally drivers, so it has some pedigree). Build quality and reliability is excellent - no rattles, good quality materials - admittedly I currently have a Ford with full leather interior so maybe the other materials are different in comparison.

But overall you could get any of them and be happy depending on what you want. I would choose the BMW if it could fit a baby's travel system in the boot!

neil.woos

Okay fine, Toyota has better build quality than a BMW.

RichardD1970

BMW's are crap, 3rd from bottom on the latest JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study.

http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/2015239%20UK%20VDS.pdf

Get a Skoda or Kia .

dannyrst

neil.woos wrote: »

Funny how everyone like ChumLee and dannyrst become quiet after they have been proven wrong.

Me?

You're the one who has changed the goalposts so many times in this thread. You said an old 325 has better fuel economy like for like with a 1.6 Astra, then a 1.8 Astra, then a 1.8 Insignia, then a comparable Insignia, by which I assume you mean the 2.0T, or VXR? Be clearer in future.

RichardD1970

neil.woos wrote: »

Oh dear lord. See, this is the exact type of blasphemy you get, especially prevalent on MSE forums. BMW/Merc interiors are of far higher quality than Fords and Vauxhalls.


BMW's are a lot better engineered than Fords and Vauxhalls. They are A LOT better to drive, better handling, better driving dynamics, higher quality interiors, better made and the list goes on....

Not really.

As you have been told before (in a different incarnation) my brother is a BMW engineer who thinks you are the most full of sh*t idiot who does more damage to the brand than good with your over zealous pontificating on all things BMW.

He drives a BMW (it's expected and might cause problems for his career if he didn't) and gets to have a go in all the new cars (and rivals) for a couple of weeks and wouldn't necessarily drive one if given the choice.