Disabled spaces on private land

aguynameddarryl

stator wrote: »

Of course. You need to be more imaginative about the ranges of (dis)abilities that exist. Plus it's not just about getting out of the car but the distance from the shop.

And you need to be more imaginative about the range of cars, parking spaces, parking habits, children and childseats that exist.

See above "sense of entitlement".

aguynameddarryl

Half_way wrote: »

Parent and child bays give people a false sense of entitlement to park in and clog up disabled bays if no P&C bays are available ( or provided )

P&C bays are a fairly recent innovation, and it can only be assumed that one of the reasons for their existence is as an additional revenue stream for the PPCs targeting those who happen to park in one without a child ( ie general public/disabled) and those who park in disabled bays as there are no P&C bays or P&C bays present.

Nobody has claimed that people should be able to use disabled bays if there are insufficient P&C bays.

People HAVE claimed that disabled drivers should use P&C bays if there are insufficient disabled bays.

You're picking and choosing which rules you want to follow and that is patently unfair.

You cite the Equality Act as your justification - using your logic, why don't you park in the roadway? Lots of room on either side, it's Private land so you can't be ticketed by the council or police and if a PPC has the temerity to give you a PCN invoice, you can become all righteous and slap out the Equality Act.

keepitlegal

I hope I haven't come across as a 'militant disabled campaigner', I just think it grossly unfair for people to abuse parking in disabled spaces when they obviously have no disability.
My opening post never mentioned P&C spaces, this was started by another poster, but just for the record, I don't have a problem with P&C spaces, my local Asda has several which are closer to the entrance than the disabled spaces (I don't have a problem with that I'm just stating a fact), the P&C spaces are wider than the normal spaces but not as wide as the disabled bays.
I would like to point out it's extremely difficult to exit the car and get into my wheelchair, it's even harder for my wife to get her 99 year old mother out of the car and into her wheelchair, that is why, if possible I park in a disabled bay and if one is not available I park on the end of a row so I can open my door fully.

Keepitlegal

Half_way

From a quick google search - a thread on pepipoo

My wife parked in a a disabled bay at Matalan as we have a young toddler so needed the room to open the doors(Pushchair etc) and our car is quite wide too. No family spaces were left available.

from the same thread - by school run mum ( coupon mad on here

QUOTE (Staneee @ Fri, 11 Jul 2014 - 16:47)
I'm a newbie and looking for advice My wife parked in a a disabled bay at Matalan as we have a young toddler so needed the room to open the doors(Pushchair etc) and our car is quite wide too.
Ouch - trying hard not to rant here - NEVER PARK IN A DISABLED BAY. Parents with children have no 'right' to a wider bay, and I say that as a Mum of 4 children myself.

QUOTE
No family spaces were left available.
So? Parents with children have no 'right' to a wider bay. Use a normal bay. Parent & Child spaces are merely a marketing gimmick by retail parks - whereas disabled bays are there to fulfil a requirement of the Equality Act and are a legal right for genuine disabled people to use as they need them. There is no comparison between the two bays.

QUOTE
When she returned there was a notice of the car
Hardly surprising.

QUOTE
we have now just received a PCN from Smart parking to pay £90. How should I proceed here?


Well now my rant is over and I sincerely, honestly hope you and your wife will never, ever park so selfishly again, here you go:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Send the first appeal there, online to Smart Parking using their 'appeals' webpage and they will cancel within two weeks.

QUOTE (Hellfire8 @ Fri, 11 Jul 2014 - 20:08)
Yes... first we need to confirm the date of the parking and date of the letter. then we can move from there, whether we POFA has been complied with or not. As you don't have the original window notice it would be hard to argue it WAS NOT a ticket. but still, you'll not have to pay a penny


There's no need with Smart Parking as their NTO letters do not comply with POFA 2012 so they have no way to establish keeper liability and always cancel when they see the first appeal template frorm MSE - every time - it's about the only 'smart' thing they do!

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 - 00:56

Fruitcake

AndyBSG wrote: »

It is almost impossible to safely remove a baby in a child seat from a normal parking bay if there is a car parked in the bay next to it.

Or stick newly purchased items on the back seat that won't fit in your boot. Ironing boards, picnic tables, brooms, mops, barbecues, to name but a few. However, you can't use a wider than normal space to do this unless you have a child with you who may or may not need the extra room.

My beef is that shops have decided to restrict the use of wider bays only to a certain group of shoppers, even if they don't need it. The PPCs then use this to target legitimate shoppers if they dare to buy something that requires doors to be opened fully.

Fruitcake

aguynameddarryl wrote: »

Nobody has claimed that people should be able to use disabled bays if there are insufficient P&C bays.

People HAVE claimed that disabled drivers should use P&C bays if there are insufficient disabled bays.

You're picking and choosing which rules you want to follow and that is patently unfair.

You cite the Equality Act as your justification - using your logic, why don't you park in the roadway? Lots of room on either side, it's Private land so you can't be ticketed by the council or police and if a PPC has the temerity to give you a PCN invoice, you can become all righteous and slap out the Equality Act.

Maybe not on this thread but ...

Pennywise wrote: »

Why is it morally wrong for anyone who needs to use a disabled space when they simply don't have a BB? As mentioned on this thread, plenty of short term physical and mobility problems would dictate someone without a BB can be more in need of a space than someone who has one, i.e. broken leg! I've used a disabled space when I've been with my son in his pram when the parent/child spaces have been full and the disabled area mostly empty. It's a matter of need at that time!

At the end of the day, the provider of the car park has to make a decision about number of wider spaces (disabled and parent/child remember too!) and where they're locating in the car park. Sadly, many car park owners don't give it enough thought, and sadly too many people (with or without BBs or children) abuse it. It's a matter of balance. If it's been planned badly or abused, then enough complaints will get the owner to change things.

and ...

Raisedfist wrote: »

Now I am guilty of parking in a disabled bay without a bluebadge ill admit to that, my excuse was the car park was hella busy couldn't park anywhere and needed to literally pop into shop to use cash machine. 5 min later come out to find the notice on my windscreen so naturally took the advice off here threw the notice in the bin and ignored all correspondence until yesterday where the CCJ landed on my doorstep.

Guys_Dad

Don't know how I managed with out P & C spaces when my now grown up sons were small and P & C spaces were unheard of. If my memory wasn't so bad, I might be able to answer that,

Iceweasel

Piggywiggy wrote: »

Begs the question if your mobility is so bad you cannot get out of your car in a normal space but you are not entitled to a disabled space are you really able enough to drive?

Hmmmm. I hope you never experience the Arthritis I suffer from.

I can walk and drive fine but have to twist my body around to get out of the car - a narrow space means that I can't get the door open wide.

Which then means that I have to further twist my knees which is pretty painful.

Perhaps if I were to use the standard narrow spaces, and take more pain-killers etc. my knees and ankles will deteriorate quicker -so that the day will come faster that I qualify for having a Blue Badge.

Then no-one will be bothered if I use any wider bay.

aguynameddarryl

Fruitcake wrote: »

Maybe not on this thread but ...

Take that up with them then, they're clearly in the wrong. Using a few narrow-minded clots as a stick to bash an entire category of other road users who have been given an entitlement by the owners of a private car park is, frankly, nuts.

I'll not be helping any such clot avoid paying a PCN, but at the same time, I'm not interested in hearing someone be equally narrow-minded about P&C bays. If you can't see that there is a need for them, then I'm at a total loss.

Fruitcake

aguynameddarryl wrote: »

Take that up with them then, they're clearly in the wrong. Using a few narrow-minded clots as a stick to bash an entire category of other road users who have been given an entitlement by the owners of a private car park is, frankly, nuts.

I'll not be helping any such clot avoid paying a PCN, but at the same time, I'm not interested in hearing someone be equally narrow-minded about P&C bays. If you can't see that there is a need for them, then I'm at a total loss.

I did, along with many other posters.

I can see that there is a need for some wider bays. What I can't see is why they have to be exclusively for people with children, especially if they don't actually need wider bays. I also don't understand why they have to be close to the shop entrance.