How will the economy be affected by SNP MPs; will it be for richer or for poorer and

princeofpounds

Interesting.
How do you qualify the over representation perception?
How many MP's do you believe they should have?

IIRC, England has 532 MPs for 53m people. Scotland 59 for 5.2m people. That's about 13% over-represented.


Actually, that's not really the biggest issue, I just commented on Scotland as this is a Scottish thread, was a bit tongue in cheek.


The real scandal is between different constituencies (Isle of Wight and Western Isles being the most extreme).

elantan

personally I am all for 16 year olds voting should they want to, the referendum last year showed many 16 year olds ( and 14 years old for that matter) knew more about the situation than some adults... fascinating that the whole FFA is still floating around, it appears Scotland cant operate on a £7.6bn deficit yet Osborne can afford to loose £7.2bn in his RBS sell off and have a hugely higher deficit than £7.2bn but thats ok

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Well, the Conservatives have got plans to reduce the deficit, otherwise how could Nicola object to them.

The SNP have no solid plans to reduce their deficit other than some vague notion that things will just be better under the SNP, a claim every political party makes.

Before being offered FFA perhaps Scotland needs to show a little more responsibility on how it spends its current budget. Maybe a little less free prescriptions and tuition fees and a tad more realism.

I think FFA may just be a bit of 'theatre' all round. Hopelessly complex, years for agreements and legislation.. and perhaps better placed right now while the referendum is still fresh in people's minds.. to once and for all demonstrate to reluctant No voters ( that even when 50% of Scots voters ask for it ).. While Scotland remains part of the Union, there will be nothing ever really meaningful in the way of further powers coming Scotland's way. And that Tory cuts and policies are all Scots have to look forward to for the forseeable future within the UK. EVEL is just another nail in the coffin.. and if the below is true..

The Times reported on Thursday that the prime minister, who may table the changes next week, has toughened up his plan to prevent Scottish MPs from English legislation even if it has a knock-on effect on the Scottish block grant.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/12/gordon-brown-uk-on-life-support-as-conservatives-play-the-english-card

Will cause a great deal of anger. And we still have Trident renewal debates to look forward too as well !

At the time of the referendum. I felt that there were a great many Labour leaning No voters, who voted No fully in the expectation that Labour would be returned to power this May. The polling for Labour was pretty good around September, and they certainly weren't expected to lose all those Scottish seats either at that time. Quite the opposite in fact as many expected the SNP to crash and burn if there was a No vote.

I wonder now, how many of them are starting to think, that perhaps getting out of Westminster altogether would be preferable to the next 5/10 years of living under a Conservative government. Or perceiving Labour moving further rightwards once again under a new leader. Imo, this potentially very large group of No voters will be worth watching over the next few years.

Even the Daily Record seems to have turned fire on the Tories a bit regarding their own front page 'Vow' just before the referendum.. warning that the Union is in danger if it isn't offered in full. I expect they also thought that Labour would be in power by now.

elantan

ACH I believe we will get what we deserve, Scotland will suffer greatly and when there is nothing left worth having we will get our independence forced on us ... And hell slap it intae us for voting NO in September

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think FFA may just be a bit of 'theatre' all round. Hopelessly complex, years for agreements and legislation.. and perhaps better placed right now while the referendum is still fresh in people's minds.. to once and for all demonstrate to reluctant No voters ( that even when 50% of Scots voters ask for it ).. While Scotland remains part of the Union, there will be nothing ever really meaningful in the way of further powers coming Scotland's way. And that Tory cuts and policies are all Scots have to look forward to for the forseeable future within the UK. EVEL is just another nail in the coffin.. and if the below is true..

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/12/gordon-brown-uk-on-life-support-as-conservatives-play-the-english-card

Will cause a great deal of anger. And we still have Trident renewal debates to look forward too as well !

At the time of the referendum. I felt that there were a great many Labour leaning No voters, who voted No fully in the expectation that Labour would be returned to power this May. The polling for Labour was pretty good around September, and they certainly weren't expected to lose all those Scottish seats either at that time. Quite the opposite in fact as many expected the SNP to crash and burn if there was a No vote.

I wonder now, how many of them are starting to think, that perhaps getting out of Westminster altogether would be preferable to the next 5/10 years of living under a Conservative government. Or perceiving Labour moving further rightwards once again under a new leader. Imo, this potentially very large group of No voters will be worth watching over the next few years.

Even the Daily Record seems to have turned fire on the Tories a bit regarding their own front page 'Vow' just before the referendum.. warning that the Union is in danger if it isn't offered in full. I expect they also thought that Labour would be in power by now.

It's looking good for Holyrood elections:
All the faux outrage will ensure an SNP clean sweep, followed immediately by a demand for a new referendum.

And trident as the new poll tax.

Free at last.

princeofpounds

it appears Scotland cant operate on a £7.6bn deficit yet Osborne can afford to loose £7.2bn in his RBS sell off and have a hugely higher deficit than £7.2bn but thats ok

This is a real back to school moment....


Whether RBS is sold at a loss or a profit does not matter for the deficit, it is a cash inflow.


Nor is whether it is sold at a loss or a profit remotely the fault of George Osborne. That number depends on an 'in-price' that he had nothing to do with. If you wish to criticise the price he sells for, or the value-add/rescue during his oversight, totally fine, but don't judge him based on Gordon Brown's purchase price.


Finally, the absolute £ amount of the deficit is not remotely relevant to the operation of the two countries, given that the economy of the UK is ~13x the size that of Scotland.


I don't mind comparisons, but make them honest rather than cynical political point-scoring on dubious logical grounds.

elantan

Cynical well that's my middle name, im cynical of all of the stories and attempts of treating people like they don't know any different ... But it is interesting how one is unfortunate and the other world endingly horrific for the people

princeofpounds

But it is interesting how one is unfortunate and the other world endingly horrific for the people

I think another major difference is that in the case of the UK, the government acknowledges it is too high and bringing it down, whilst in Scotland the government denies it is too high and promises growing public spending. anything.

Tromking

Does anyone listen to Gordon Brown still?
I think the Tories and ergo the English have finally realised that in its tortuous relationship with the Scots, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
The story of the GE2015 was for some Scotland sending 56 nationalists to Westminster, but it was also the birth of there being real political capital in being anti-nationalist and anti-break-up of the Union, and if I'm being honest in being anti-Scottish too.
As someone who is not a natural Tory, I did find myself cheering on Cameron when he directed his ire toward the SNP this week.
This may very well suit the SNP in its quest toward the ultimate goal of independence, but I wouldn't bite the hand that feeds you too much.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

Does anyone listen to Gordon Brown still?

Does he have anything credible to say?