How will the economy be affected by SNP MPs; will it be for richer or for poorer and

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

ah
good you've dropped that tax nonsense

shows you are capable of learning something, albeit with little gratitude to your coach.

P.S. You'll have seen that my reasons do not include your incorrect premise

CLAPTON wrote: »

you want voting for 16-17 years old
-because it differentiates the Scots from the English and fuels mindless dislike and division
-because you think that will help your cause.

I do not need a coach or mentor who incites hatred, division and racism.

princeofpounds

Essentially, if your old enough to leave home and be responsible for yourself, then you should be able to vote. (In my opinion)

This is where things get a little bit grey in my opinion. In practice, children can leave home and be responsible at 16.


In law, they are still minors and can do so only with the acquiescence of their parents.


The same is true for the often-quoted joining the military (and they don't do any active service), and getting married.


They can take a job, again with parental consent, but their contracts are not like those for people over 18 - they can void any contract which is not to their own advantage or for a necessity, amongst other complications.


The point is that when you get into the detail of all these things, they are not working or marrying or fighting like an 18 year old would; they inhabit an intermediate world where they have limited freedom and limited obligation.


And there is nothing wrong with that, given that no-one wakes up one day an adult, like a butterfly from a chrysalis.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

P.S. You'll have seen that my reasons do not include your incorrect premise



I do not need a coach or mentor who incites hatred, division and racism.

No indeed, you can do that all my yourself.

IveSeenTheLight

princeofpounds wrote: »

This is where things get a little bit grey in my opinion. In practice, children can leave home and be responsible at 16.

In law, they are still minors and can do so only with the acquiescence of their parents.

Is this just in England (and Wales)?

Some key things you can do from 16 in Scotland: -

Adoption:
At 16, if you have been adopted, you have a right to access your adoption records

Alcohol:
At 16, you can buy and consume beer, wine or cider with a meal in a restaurant, at the manager's discretion
At 18, you can buy alcohol in licensed premises and consume alcohol in a bar

Armed Forces:
At 15 years and 9 months, you can apply to join the Armed Forces (Army, Navy and RAF)
You will need your parent's consent until you are 18
You cannot train to be an officer until you are:
Army - from 17 years 9 months
Navy - from 17 years
Air Force - from 17 years 6 months
At 17 you can train as non-commissioned aircrew in the RAF

Babysitting:
At 16, you can be held legally responsible for babysitting

Changing your name:
At 16 you can change your name officially without your parent's consent

Civil partnership:
At 16, you can enter into a civil partnership

Contract:
At 16, you can enter into a legally-binding contract. If you are under 16, you can also do this if the contract is usual for someone of your age and its terms are not unreasonable

Crime:
At 16 you can be prosecuted in the District Court, Sheriff Court or High Court

Driving:
At 16 you can hold a licence to drive a moped

Gambling:
At 16 you can buy National Lottery tickets and bet on the football pools

Lawyer:
At 12 you are presumed to be sufficiently old and mature to instruct a solicitor in a civil (ie non-criminal) case
Provided you have a general understanding of what it means to do so

Leaving home:
At 16, you can leave home without your parent or guardian's consent

Marriage:
At 16, you can get married and you do not need your parent's consent

Medical:
At 16 you can consent to any medical, surgical or dental treatment

Money:

From birth, you can have a bank or building society account
It will usually be in your parent or guardian's name until you are 7
From birth, you can own Premium Bonds
They will be held by your parent, grandparent, great-grandparent or guardian until you are 16
At 16 you can buy Premium Bonds on your own behalf

Passports:
At 16 you can apply for a UK Passport on your own behalf
At 16 you can apply for a 10-year passport

Pets:
At 16 you can buy a pet

Piercings:
At 16 you can get a skin piercing without parental consent

Piloting an aeroplane:
At 16 you can hold a licence to pilot a glider

School:
If you are 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school on 31 May of that year
If you are 16 between 1 October and the last day of February you can leave school at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year

Sexual relationships:
At 16 you can consent to:
Lawful sexual intercourse

A Member of the Scottish Youth Parliament
At 16 you can stand for election as:
A Community Councillor
16 is the recommended minimum age at which you can stand for election as a Community Councillor

Buses & Trains:
At 16 you pay a full fare

Flights:
At 12 you pay a full fare on most flights

Voting:
At 18 (currently in process to devolve powers to reduce this to 16) you can vote in an election for your:
Local councillor
MP ( UK Parliament)
MSP (Scottish Parliament)
MEP (European Parliament)

Work:
At 16 you can get a full-time job and pay National Insurance
At 16 you can get the National Minimum Wage
At the rate for 16 and 17 year olds

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

No indeed, you can do that all my yourself.

LOL, gotta go now and just to let you know, I'll be offline at least most of next week.

I do have an image in mind of what you'll be doing tonight though

kabayiri

Really? What is the big deal with this 16/17 business?

You have to decide upon an arbitrary cut-off point.

17 years and 211 days is just as valid a number as 18 years. It's not going to suit everyone, but then....what would suit everyone. Nothing!

Grim fact. A lot of people spend more time thinking about the X Factor finalist than the in/out referendum, and this includes 16/17 yo's and the modern peer pressures they face.

Let parliament do it's job and every MP have a free vote on the cut-off age.

princeofpounds

That's a very long list of things you can do from age 12 -18... but I guess the ultimate point of my posts is similar to kaabyiri; it's an arbitrary cut-off and I don't really care as long as it's broadly sensible.


I certainly don't think it's as important as, say, the over-representation of Scotland in parliament.

Rinoa

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

So your "sole" valid reason is to ensure that Scotland does not continue to run a deficit as the UK government has done to date.

Two points: -

1) The conservative government has not provided "detailed" plans of how the UK deficit will be reduced, just a target which has moved out.

2) I'm sure FFA power could be devolved but with a caveat over caps on debt i.e. the 7.5Bn you refer to much be reduced to zero over a 5 year government period.

I did, as did 45% of the nation, however we were a 5% swing away from having a majority.
We respect that decision, but you must accept that the Scottish electorate (both yes and no voters) want more powers and fiscal autonomy

Yes, the Conservatives said they would do it in the last parliament, failed and have now stretched that to within this parliament.

I don't know how long the SNP planned for this as I am not a member.
I fully agree that we should be living within our means and the SNP also agree this needs to reduce.

FFA is not stating that a deficit would continue on Scotland, but give it, the ability to adjust and grow the economy in a better way for their constituents

Well, the Conservatives have got plans to reduce the deficit, otherwise how could Nicola object to them.

The SNP have no solid plans to reduce their deficit other than some vague notion that things will just be better under the SNP, a claim every political party makes.

Before being offered FFA perhaps Scotland needs to show a little more responsibility on how it spends its current budget. Maybe a little less free prescriptions and tuition fees and a tad more realism.

IveSeenTheLight

princeofpounds wrote: »

I certainly don't think it's as important as, say, the over-representation of Scotland in parliament.

Interesting.
How do you qualify the over representation perception?
How many MP's do you believe they should have?

IveSeenTheLight

Rinoa wrote: »

Well, the Conservatives have got plans to reduce the deficit, otherwise how could Nicola object to them.

The SNP also have plans to reduce the deficit, just at a slower rate

Rinoa wrote: »

The SNP have no solid plans to reduce their deficit other than some vague notion that things will just be better under the SNP, a claim every political party makes.

Clearly wrong

Rinoa wrote: »

Before being offered FFA perhaps Scotland needs to show a little more responsibility on how it spends its current budget. Maybe a little less free prescriptions and tuition fees and a tad more realism.

It's a devolved matter. Why should it matter if Scotland decides to offer more towards Education and Health as opposed to other departments?