Flytipping woes

Bigphil1474

As a council worker a long way from your situation, I'd say the e-mails from paul the Environment officer are bizarre at best. He sounds like a right numpty who hasn't got a clue what's going on, with an unusual approach to responding to complainants. Also, didn't notice anywhere where he said he'd actually left his desk to do any investigating.
The basic problem is, who does the land belong to where the rubbish is being dumped. I couldn't view the plan you posted . Just because it's an alley doesn't mean it's public land. We have a rough track at the back of my house that goes along for about 20 houses - but it's still private land as it belongs to the house on the other side even though they've never done anything with it. The alley in your situation may actually be shared ownership with all the properties. Having said that (from the photo you posted and previous comments you made), I'd be quite confident saying it is a public road.
If it is a public road, it's the council's responsibility. If the alley is only for pedestrian access, one simple measure they could take is to fit gates at the end of the alley - wide enough to walk through, but not to drive through. I've seen some where they've fitted lockable gates and given keys to residents, although might be a pain if you lose your keys. That could deter the tipping in your case.
I agree with you OP, sticking a fence round your garage would be a bit daft, although I can't actually see a garage in the photo!
Looking at the rubbish, I'd guess it came from a recently cleared out house nearby, where the owner couldn't be bothered paying for commercial disposal - are you in a student area by any chance? There does seem to be some potential evidence in there - the green folders, and the unusual sticker on the side of the microwave?? Really, the council should have gone through the rubbish before it was removed to deal with the cause, not the symptom.
I'd get a tin of red spray paint, check your deeds and spray a line along the ground marking the edge of your property if it extends beyond your garage. Any rubbish that falls outside that boundary is the council's responsibility, and any that strays into your boundary is given a little nudge outside of it.

Bigphil1474

I managed to open the plan - stupid council computers trying to slow me down. From that plan, anything beyond your garage is nothing to do with you. Complain to your councillor about any rubbish that appears, and the council's lack of action to prevent fly tipping re-occurring. Everyone runs round like crazy when a councillor complaint comes in.

djdust

Hey BigPhil, thanks for the detailed response. :beer:

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

As a council worker a long way from your situation, I'd say the e-mails from Paul the Environment officer are bizarre at best. He sounds like a right numpty who hasn't got a clue what's going on, with an unusual approach to responding to complainants.

Seconded. I particularly love his last response that basically states fairly clearly that "I can't be bothered to talk to you".

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

Also, didn't notice anywhere where he said he'd actually left his desk to do any investigating.

Yup, I'm also still waiting for him to come and put a sign up that he said he'd sort, I said I didn't mind him doing so!

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

I agree with you OP, sticking a fence round your garage would be a bit daft, although I can't actually see a garage in the photo!

My doing entirely. A decade ago, I had people constantly breaking into my garage and, I presume, using it as their little drug den (judging by all the tin foil they were leaving behind). Mad thing is, they were constantly chucking all the contents of the garage into the back lane and making it really bloody obvious that they were there! If they'd not done that, I probably wouldn't have noticed so quickly and they'd have gotten away with it for a lot longer - and, scarily, also probably had a better chance of getting into my garden / breaking into the house - all completely out of sight of anyone... :eek: A mate helped me get hold of a massive plank of wood that he nailed onto the garage that sealed it tight. No one's tried, as far as I can tell, to set foot in there since. More recently, I've had people smash in my gate and presumably try to get in but not get any further because I've deliberately let the weeds at the back of my garden grow completely wild and out of control - a bloody brilliant natural barrier... :T Those weeds obscure the garage and the nailed-on wood, and that suits me just fine. I don't particularly care if it looks unkempt or is more enticing to fly tippers, they shouldn't be doing it, period. :mad:

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

Looking at the rubbish, I'd guess it came from a recently cleared out house nearby, where the owner couldn't be bothered paying for commercial disposal - are you in a student area by any chance? There does seem to be some potential evidence in there - the green folders, and the unusual sticker on the side of the microwave?? Really, the council should have gone through the rubbish before it was removed to deal with the cause, not the symptom.

All the stuff in that photo was cleared up just a few days after it was taken - presumably by the council, or maybe it wasn't (I can't really tell from Paul's responses, he seems very unsure himself). The sticker on the side of the microwave seemed to be a taxi licence thingy, presumably something easy to trace? Doubt Paul bothered though... Since it was all removed, more has built up in its place, including the aforementioned empty giant bag of rice that arrived this week which, to me, indicates it's possibly a local food-establishment that might be dumping their waste on me...

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

I'd get a tin of red spray paint, check your deeds and spray a line along the ground marking the edge of your property if it extends beyond your garage. Any rubbish that falls outside that boundary is the council's responsibility, and any that strays into your boundary is given a little nudge outside of it.

Well, this is the thing. If the council is determined to try and make out that the little patch of concrete out the back is mine (which the previously attached pic of my deeds does seem to pretty much indicate), then I'm just as determined to point back to them that all the other stuff that spills outside that perimeter is their damned responsibility and attempting to pass the buck onto me is just really stupid as there's still mess they need to come clear up anyway!!

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

I managed to open the plan - stupid council computers trying to slow me down. From that plan, anything beyond your garage is nothing to do with you.

Are you absolutely sure? To me, it seems pretty fuzzy and I don't feel confident saying that back to them with complete assurance.

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

Complain to your councillor about any rubbish that appears, and the council's lack of action to prevent fly tipping re-occurring. Everyone runs round like crazy when a councillor complaint comes in.

I may do just that...

gazman100

Skim read this thread so may have missed it but is the lane actually owned by the council? The issue we had in the same situation is the lane was privately owned, although apparently in neighbouring councils the council take ownership of the land. The council have been some help in clearing up but did once receive an flyer basically stating 'we'll clear it this time, but we think it the residents doing it', although based on most of neighbours I don't think it is.

Anyway, as a solution one of the residents took it on to install a locking post with a combination lock. Cost a tenner per house (and weekend of the neighbours time) and no one except residents can drive up there. It has been very effective. Is that an option?

djdust

Hi all, here we go again!!

Since I last posted on here, as always, a massive amount of rubbish has built up again and, this week, I got another "notice" through my door telling me to clear up the mess "on my private property" or else. I emailed "Paul" again with the following:

I'm extremely annoyed to have come home today to find yet another threatening letter from the local "Street Cleansing Team" advising me that I need to remove the "unacceptable" accumulation to the rear of my property. Can I refer back to my previous complaint of last year and advise you yet again that:

-- I DIDN'T DUMP THE RUBBISH THERE
-- I HAVE NO MEANS OF DISPOSING OF THIS RUBBISH AND HAVE NO CAR OR OTHER VEHICLE
-- I CURRENTLY WORK FULL-TIME STRUGGLING TO EARN A LIVING AND DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM

This is, once again, causing me a massive amount of stress. I am not responsible for the fact that flytippers have taken a liking to the rear of my property and I am physically unable to remove it. Please will you arrange to get this sorted like last time? For your information too, I recently had a careful look through some of the rubbish left and I located some letter fragments that I've attached. Are you able to use an "NHS Number" to locate the person who dumped it?

Regards

Mr Dust

He came back with this:

Good Morning Mr Dust,
Thank-you for your e mail.
Whilst we as a Council understand the problems incurred by persons dumping rubbish on other people’s property, we cannot clear rubbish on private property, if that was the case the Council would be full time clearing rubbish.
Once someone has dumped rubbish on private property this rubbish becomes the property of that household, I know this seems unfair but this rule/law applies to everyone, it is then up to the tenant/resident or householder to remove this rubbish lawfully.
All we can offer as a Council is to enforce any fly-tipping where we receive evidence where this fly-tip originates.
As this appears to be an on-going issue with your property What I would suggest is to fence your property at the rear, this would stop people from dumping on your property in the future. I have in my possession some no fly-tipping signs which I can give to you to put at the rear of your property that may help in the short term.
Our street cleaning team have been told to put letters through the doors of homes where fly-tipping occurs, as you are probably aware once someone puts rubbish in a particular spot it is added to therefore compounding the issue.
I have noted that you have no transport to take this rubbish to the tip, if you cannot get a member of your family or a friend to help you take this rubbish to the tip there are many legal waste carriers who would clear for you.
I am sorry I cannot be more helpful on this occasion, but please be assured we as a Council take fly-tipping very seriously and if you have any evidence in the future where any of fly-tipping originates we will take further enforcement action.
Kind Regards
Paul

In other words, pretty much the exact same standard response as before but which doesn't actually acknowledge the fact I *did* include some evidence for him and makes it clear that, as far as he's concerned, that small strip of concrete at the back *is* my private property and it's very firmly my responsibility (even though the rubbish is spilling beyond that and is on the public lane too as can be seen on the pics I took today below).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg

Notice how the house next door on the right is very firmly unscathed...

Thoughts anyone? I'm sick of this to-ing and fro-ing. I am not in any financial position to be putting up a fence (that would only block the entrance to my garage anyway) and I certainly can't afford to pay for someone to come and collect and don't see why I should seeing as the council have been clearing it up for as many years as I can remember. Plus, if I do pay once, I'll be doing it for evermore...

SplanK

Have you considered putting up a fake CCTV camera, with a CCTV sign? This may help deter the !!!!!!s from dumping stuff there in the first place. Wont cost a fortune to do and worth a shot.


Have you considered contacting your local MP about the issue?


Stuff in the waste may not be evidence of the person dumping it unless its repetitive. It could be a house clearance team who are offloading rubbish, chances are it will be the same people doing it over and over, see its cleared up and them offload a bit more! You need to catch them in the act.

EssexExile

I've just skimmed through again & see that it has been suggested several times that you contact your councillor for help. I can't see anywhere that you have done this. Do it.

With reference to the fact that next door's patch is clear & your's isn't, either next door clears his patch regularly or someone really doesn't like you.

djdust

EssexExile wrote: »

I've just skimmed through again & see that it has been suggested several times that you contact your councillor for help. I can't see anywhere that you have done this. Do it.

I will do.

phil24_7

djdust wrote: »

Hi all, here we go again!!

Since I last posted on here, as always, a massive amount of rubbish has built up again and, this week, I got another "notice" through my door telling me to clear up the mess "on my private property" or else. I emailed "Paul" again with the following:



He came back with this:



In other words, pretty much the exact same standard response as before but which doesn't actually acknowledge the fact I *did* include some evidence for him and makes it clear that, as far as he's concerned, that small strip of concrete at the back *is* my private property and it's very firmly my responsibility (even though the rubbish is spilling beyond that and is on the public lane too as can be seen on the pics I took today below).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip_jan16_2.jpg

Notice how the house next door on the right is very firmly unscathed...

Thoughts anyone? I'm sick of this to-ing and fro-ing. I am not in any financial position to be putting up a fence (that would only block the entrance to my garage anyway) and I certainly can't afford to pay for someone to come and collect and don't see why I should seeing as the council have been clearing it up for as many years as I can remember. Plus, if I do pay once, I'll be doing it for evermore...

You may not like what I have to say but here it goes.

The reason your property is getting dumped on because it looks derelict. Your garage was being used a a crack den because it looks derelict. You back door was kicked in (probably by youths/druggies/homeless people) because it looks derelict.

Thieves do not kick back doors in, they like to make as little noise as possible. Squatters do not use peoples garages if they think someone is living in the house and fly tippers do not dump on peoples land if they'll get caught by the occupier.

I would recommend cutting back the weeds etc. (your neighbours can't be too thrilled with seeing that either), repairing your back door, taking the wood off the garage door and relocating it to the inside so that it can't be seen and giving the back door, the garage door and all of the walls a lick of suitable paint. I think that once this is done you will suffer much less from druggies, vagrants and fly tippers.

Make the lane look used by you, even if it isn't.

Regards
Phil

djdust

Cheers Phil, not offended by the advice at all.