Flytipping woes

djdust

Evening all.

I emailed the council last week reiterating the same points I've made several times and got a reply today. They basically told me to phone in and speak to them directly, something I'm unable to do as I don't have a spare minute during the day, nor a phone with any credit. Below is a key excerpt:

"In regards to the rest of the rubbish that is left there, the cleansing team have stated that this is on private land and so will not be touched by ourselves."

Here's a couple of photos of the current state of the back of my house:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/IMAG0939.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/IMAG0940.jpg

Some of the junk could technically count as being on my land as there's a gap measuring approx. 30 inches between my garage door and the public lane but, as you can see, plenty of it is also on the actual lane...

Anyway, it looks like they are definitely gonna be going with the "it's on your land, you deal with it" angle...

DaftyDuck

Contact your local councillor. They're usually quite good at getting involved with this kind of issue.

Oh, the wheelie bin belongs to the Council - you can insist they take ultimate responsibility for their property being dumped on your land, or charge them directly for its disposal!

djdust

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

The way to deal with them might be to contact the Land Registry and, for just a few £, get a copy of your Title Plan to prove that you don't own the land in question - and send the Council a letter enclosing a copy of that for their information.

Better still might be to get the Land Registry to confirm exactly who does own the land in question and suggest they contact them (which could land up in them having to contact themselves - ie another Council Department) about it.

The Land Registry have a General Boundary Rule - which is to the effect that they cant/wont determine literally to the inch absolutely exactly where property boundaries lie. But the leeway on that is, as I understand it, plus/minus 18" each way. With that - I imagine this bit of concrete outside your property is bigger than 18" wide...

Attached below is a link to a photo of something from the Land Registry that came with my deeds. Can someone advise, is that all you get or would I be able to get hold of something more detailed? I don't even know who owns the fence and wall that's between the 2 properties either side...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/IMAG0941.jpg

(the back lane is to the right)

EssexExile

djdust wrote: »

Attached below is a link to a photo of something from the Land Registry that came with my deeds. Can someone advise, is that all you get or would I be able to get hold of something more detailed?

As far as I know that's all you get.
I like DaftyDuck's idea, get your local councillor on your side.

rach_k

Once you've managed to get that lot cleared, hopefully by the council, is there something you could put there to fill the space so it doesn't get dumped on again? Something tall enough that it would deter people from putting stuff on top of it and they'd just leave it on the path instead if they are really intent on dumping on that spot. Perhaps a couple of wheelie bins/compost bins/water butts/old dustbin etc, full obviously but not overflowing and something acceptable to have at the edge of your land?

djdust

Hi all, an update on this. First up, here's a photo of how bad the problem was a few weeks back. I've indicated in red roughly where the patch of concrete in front of my garage door and gate is, an area that is technically *my land*

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16317927/flytip.jpg

I chased and chased and eventually got an email from an "Enviromental Services Processor":

"We have received your complaint regarding the fly tipping on private property. I understand that you have received a letter from one of our officers requesting that you remove the fly tipping from your property, and I believe that you have said that you are unable to arrange for this to take place. An officer will be visiting the site to see how much is there and will take a couple of photos for me, we will then see if and how can be resolved, I am unable to commit us to removing this.

"I have included my colleague in this reply as he is an Environmental Officer and he might be able to come up with some suggestions to stop this from happening in the future."

Less than 12 hours later, all the rubbish was gone! I emailed back thanking them for sorting it all out and figured that would be the end of the matter until the next lot was dumped. However, it wasn't. I got subsequent emails from "Paul", the colleague as follows:

"Good Morning Mr Dust,

"For your information, as Council Enforcement Officers we gather evidence to see where dumped waste originates and then proceed with enforcement action where appropriate , this tends to be more difficult on private land as we need permission from the land owner/tenant to enter private property.

"If the owner/tenant knows where the waste originates and are prepared to give a statement then this is even better evidence for us to proceed.

"Once waste/rubbish is dumped on private land it then becomes the property of that landowner/tenant and the Council are under no obligation to remove, this would be down to the owner or tenant of the property, this is the law of the land not something Swindon Borough Council has made as a policy. This would be exactly the same for me or any other Council employee Mr Dust, and I am a Council tax payer as well.

"Can you imagine Mr Dust if Swindon Council was to clear everyone’s private property/gardens what an effort this would take, we have neither the manpower or funds to take on such a mammoth task.

"The suggestion I would give is to fence your property off as many others with this problem have done in the past with good results, this would deter any further fly-tipping on your land in the future, furthermore if you have evidence where this waste on your property has originated then we will take further action.

"Whilst I understand your frustration/annoyance I reiterate there is no obligation on the Council to remove waste from private properties, if you need to respond then please e mail me directly in the meantime I will get a Notice put up on your property, hopefully this will act as a deterrent.

"Kind Regards

"Paul <surname>"

So far, so snotty. One thought that springs to mind is, how many times did he have to insert my name into the "insert name here" field on his standard cut/paste response? And exactly am I supposed to fence off a tiny bit of concrete? (see above pic)

There was then *another* reply from him 2 hours later:

"Hello again Mr Dust,

"I understand from your E Mail to <name removed> of the Borough Council this morning 03/09/2015 that the waste problem you had on your property has been resolved by persons unknown at this time, we (The Council) did not clear this waste from your property as I explained to you in my previous e mail we do not remove waste from private properties, but as you can see by the photograph it’s been dumped into the alleyway. Although I now believe this mess has been cleared from the alleyway by our street cleaning team.

(the attached photograph was simply their own version of my photo above)

"The member of the street cleaning team recognised the waste in the alleyway as exactly the same waste that was on your land previously, photographs were taken of this waste before on your property and after found dumped in the alleyway.

"Why any member of the public would go onto private land that doesn’t belong to them and throw someone else’s rubbish out into an alleyway beggars belief.

"I will be doing extensive enquires into this unsightly mess to ascertain exactly who has dumped this rubbish in the alleyway and I will take further enforcement action against those responsible when found.

"Because this waste dumped in the alleyway originated from your property, I would have asked you in the first instance for you to remove it back onto your property and to dispose of legally, fortunately this was taken out of the equation because of our street cleaning team removed the waste .

"Fly-tipping is a criminal offence and the penalties through the courts are high, I can assure you Mr Dust that I will be doing my utmost to find out who went onto your land and dumped the rubbish into the alleyway, if you know who has done this please let me know in the strictest of confidence.

"I will let you know of developments.

"Kind Regards

"Paul <surname>"

To me, that response indicated that he wasn't understanding where the rubbish was being dumped at all and thought it was actually being dumped *inside* my garden, past the gate. There's been subsequent correspondence but, before I post it here, am curious to know what other people make of this so far? Is it me or him being thick? He seems to contradict himself in the very first paragraph about who tidied up the mess...

emzi27

He seems very friendly with all the kisses.

EssexExile

emzi27 wrote: »

He seems very friendly with all the kisses.

But not too bright.

I suspect he has just flicked through all the correspondence, thought he understood & sent off a quick reply.

tired_dad

Are you 100% the strip is yours. It may well not be. There is a chance the land registry boundry line may be the walling in the picture. If so its not your land even if someone has laid some tiles.

djdust

emzi27 wrote: »

He seems very friendly with all the kisses.

Har de har, have edited the post. :rotfl: