Sanctions' figures

rogerblack

FBaby wrote: »

The problem is, and not talking about you personally, is that I don't believe that people suffering from MH disabilities (and even to a lesser extend people suffering from physical disabilities) forcibly know best what they are capable of doing work-wise or not. I'm not saying that clinicians know better either, I think no-one can really know until one tries and really give it a try.

I agree - to a limited extent.

The problem is - offloading that decision onto someone with perhaps half an hours training on a condition, who has 15 minutes per claimant, and does not get any information on the claimant other than what the claimant tells them and perhaps the 'headline' condition is not a better solution than trusting clinicians.
(talking of the current work program and WFI procedures)

To go into what is best, I would argue that actually integrating healthcare into benefits properly - so that those for example who are signing off because of a condition where intensive early treatment has been shown to make recovery faster, more successful would rapidly get that treatment.

The benefits system as it is at the moment seems to be constantly trying to do things as cheaply as possible, rather than to actually do things that may aid getting people back into work rapidly, and paying taxes, as well as incidental benefits in happiness, wellbeing, and reduced long-term costs on the NHS, reduced costs providing for the persons income based topups on a pension, ...

Take the recent debacle where it was perfectly acceptable for the average (not worst-case) wait for PIP claimants hit 40 weeks.

In principle, I welcome the new ESA health interventions trial.

But done badly, this could be hideously damaging.

FBaby

The problem is - offloading that decision onto someone with perhaps half an hours training on a condition, who has 15 minutes per claimant, and does not get any information on the claimant other than what the claimant tells them and perhaps the 'headline' condition is not a better solution than trusting clinicians.
(talking of the current work program and WFI procedures)

I totally agree with that. They certainly don't know better. Very often, neither do patient's GPs though because they are trained (and rightly so) to never question what their patient tell them (although inevitably a few do). That's why so many don't go deep into the reason why someone is asking for a sick note. If a patient says they are stressed and can't go to work, their GP is expected to believe it and act accordingly.

So if you put all together that SOME patients are not best to assess their needs, that MANY decision makers don't know better and that MOST GPs don't either, how can assessments be best handled to be most fair?

billywilly

nannytone wrote: »

every third day is a good day ( because of morphine patches) but if she goes shopping on that day, she will be bed bound for the following 2 days. such is her pain

Using that comment as a yardstick, if someone is permanently dependent on Morphine on a daily basis, presumably they are in such a state that work of any type is more or less impossible?

Morphine is not a serious contender for being a strong pain killer. I work (unpaid) in three jobs, AND take 100mg of Morphine Sulphate every 12 hours plus up to another 100ml of Oramorph every day as needed.

Maybe I should sit on my backside (or be in bed) as I must be unable to do anything.

nannytone_2

my mum also take oral morphine, along with other pain killers.
i don't see the use of morphine itself as a reason to be entitled to benefit ( my mum actually claims nothing, although she would likely be entitled to higher AA. she doesn't claim though, as my parents don't feel they need this additional money. unlike you, who has all these pensions... so much that they feel they dint need the state pension.... yet still bleated when they didn't qualify for PIP)
if the pain is controlled by the morphine, then the need for the benefit is eliminated.

the morphine doesn't control my mums pain.... it just makes it a little more bearable

billywilly

nannytone wrote: »

if the pain is controlled by the morphine, then the need for the benefit is eliminated.

I like that - a simple way of assessing is someone is entitled to a benefit.

"Good quality medication will reduce the need to claim benefits."

I don't know why this isn't happening across the country.

Let's be honest, I doubt very much that anybody would willingly tell the DWP that the pain relief is working - they will stand to lose their benefit entitlement.

Scarla

Billy, why did you need PIP payments when you don't need your state pension because you were in receipt of 6 private pensions? Genuine question.

DaisyMc81

Hi everyone. I hope I can be forgiven for jumping into a long running thread, but some of the attitudes on here are appalling!

I myself have recently had to delve into the world of benefits. I was diagnosed with very severe rheumatoid arthritis last year. I literally lost the ability to do anything including sit up in bed over the course of a few weeks. How dare anyone tell me that I'm faking! FYI, you can't fake the severity of this particular illness. Joint scans and inflammation markers in your blood are used to determine how severe it is.

Before this happened to me, I worked continually from the age of 16, never claimed any benefits, didn't come from a family of benefit claimants, and I certainly am not !!!!less! I did claim WTC because I was made redundant 5 years ago, and had to get a NMW job. My sick pay has now run out, thus I've had to claim for ESA. I was also advised to apply for PIP, had the medical and was awarded it based on my medical and evidence supplied by my consultant. The only reason that I even knew about this benefit was because the occupational therapist at the hospital told me about it. I was unable to attend an appointment because I had no transport, and couldn't afford the taxi fare as I was on SSP from work. I can assure you that when I was diagnosed my immediate reaction wasn't to rub my hands in glee wondering what I would be entitled to from the government. I'm a 34 year old woman who's had to move back home because I can not dress myself. I would swap this money that I'm being given in a heartbeat and go back to working 60 hours a week. I hope and pray that I will be able to soon.

Although my condition is progressive, there are treatments that will hopefully give me back some kind of life, I'm just waiting on approval from the NHS funding board. As soon as my condition improves enough to enable me to get back to work I will. In the meantime I am hugely grateful to the state for helping me while I need it, but I don't see it as free money! I've paid into the system for 18 years, and hope with all my heart to be able to again.

Some of the attitudes on here are very difficult to read. I sincerely hope that none of you ever have to experience serious illness.

merlin68

Benefits arent awarded on pain though. They are awarded if you meet the descriptors. None of which include pain.

1234mas430

a desperate attention seeking trolling fool !

billywilly

Scarla wrote: »

Billy, why did you need PIP payments when you don't need your state pension because you were in receipt of 6 private pensions? Genuine question.

Easy, I have had DLA for a number of years (HRM & MRC). The award finished prior to my 65th birthday when I started to receive my pensions. I was invited by the DWP to apply for PIP as continuing recognition of both my physical and mental difficulties which create the disabilities & difficulties I have.

Since I started to receive our pensions, we receive more (from all sources) than we need to provide for a comfortable life.

Financially I don't need PIP, but as a matter of principle I had hoped that the government might have shown some recognition of the difficulties that I face on a daily basis despite attempting to live a full, active and publicly spirited life.

Anyhow what has this got to do with sanctions I ask? And better still can we move back to the original question posed?