Sanctions' figures

nannytone_2

billywilly wrote: »

As you say, you helped others claim benefits, some that you knew were doing so illegally but you continued to conspire with them as it was 'your job to'.

On the other hand I respect the fact that the DWP and their decision makers are best placed to make those decisions and as such, I accept them at face value. Hence I did not lodge an application for a MR or appeal to a Tribunal. I have faith in the system, more so than agencies that are willing to be complicit in providing specialist help in making false benefit claims. Word of warning therefore that DIAL should be avoided at all costs if you don't want a DWP investigation to take place.

from what i remember, you were out of time and whinging about it

billywilly

nannytone wrote: »

the vast majority if claims that i helped with were deserved and more than met the criteria.
it was because of the small amount of others that i left,
so get your facts straight. i did not 'conspire' with anyone and a few times asked a colleague to complete forms if they wished, because i was not happy to do so

Which leads me to the conclusion that you didn't want to get your hands dirty so asked a colleague to do so on your behalf?

Is it endemic that DIAL regularly helps to complete fraudulent claims for benefits?
If so, it is something that I will take up with them.

FBaby

So your saying that because people like me can go on holiday or go out in our wheelchair that we should be capable of work.

If you read my post properly, I made sure to use to words:

If you reach the point that your treatment means that you can start resuming normal life, that you can start doing enjoyable activities, then it might mean that you might be capable of considering returning to employment.

There is quite a difference between might/consider and should be capable. I don't believe that anyone who is recovering from an illness or who has learnt to better cope with a condition is capable of working, but they might be in a position to consider it. That means assessing their abilities and looking for suitable employment that they could give it a try.

When I first read about what the WRAG was about, it sounded like a sensible idea to that effect. However, all I seem to read here is that it is the 'punishment' group, the one when you can't just get your benefit money without question, the one when you 'only' have 12 months stress-free. How many people in the WRAG actually make it what it is, ie. use these 12 months to gradually consider returning to employment? I don't know the statistics, but going by these forums, it would seem quite limited? Then people reach the end of 12 months and declare that they are definitely not ready to go back to employment as would be expected by transferring to JSA.

Of course there will be cases wrongly allocated to the WRAG rather than the Support group, but surely a number of people needed to claim ESA should be at least try (ie. look for a start) to find a job that would meet their needs.

nannytone_2

i objected on moral grounds and was within my rights to choose not to deal with certain clients.
this was for many and varied reasons.
i chose not to deal with claims if i knew the client. i didn't want to feel responsible for their claim not turning out how they wished.

part of the funding meant that DOAL had to help anyone that asked for help.
if they told us that they could or couldn't do something, this was what was written on their form.
we were also told that it wasn't our job to decide if they were telling the truth or not.
we were completing the forms 'in their words'.
sometimes i wasn't comfortable doing this as i believed them to be lying.
other advisors may have believed them, and this was between them and their own conscience

i can't speak for DIAL as an organisation.... only how things were in the branch i worked in.
many of us felt that we were compromising ourselves, but others saw no issue.
we were primarily a disability help line.... but after a while, one of our staff members was 'told' that he would be visiting a day centre every week to help asylum seekers with benefit claims. this had nothing to do with disability and more to do with securing funding from whatever source they could.
so it was more about keeping the office financially viable with the additional funds, more than helping the people that we were meant to be helping.[/B]

nannytone_2

FBaby wrote: »

If you read my post properly, I made sure to use to words:

If you reach the point that your treatment means that you can start resuming normal life, that you can start doing enjoyable activities, then it might mean that you might be capable of considering returning to employment.

There is quite a difference between might/consider and should be capable. I don't believe that anyone who is recovering from an illness or who has learnt to better cope with a condition is capable of working, but they might be in a position to consider it. That means assessing their abilities and looking for suitable employment that they could give it a try.

When I first read about what the WRAG was about, it sounded like a sensible idea to that effect. However, all I seem to read here is that it is the 'punishment' group, the one when you can't just get your benefit money without question, the one when you 'only' have 12 months stress-free. How many people in the WRAG actually make it what it is, ie. use these 12 months to gradually consider returning to employment? I don't know the statistics, but going by these forums, it would seem quite limited? Then people reach the end of 12 months and declare that they are definitely not ready to go back to employment as would be expected by transferring to JSA.

Of course there will be cases wrongly allocated to the WRAG rather than the Support group, but surely a number of people needed to claim ESA should be at least try (ie. look for a start) to find a job that would meet their needs.

i was in the WRAG for 2 years.
i was happy at the prospect of being given specific help to enable me to return to work.
in reality, they didn't have a clue what to do with me and only saw me twice.
the work programme is a sham of an idea. disabled people are just 'plonked' in with people on JSA. they attend the same interviews and are often 'forced' to comply with the same agreement that the JSA claimants have.
the work programme providers have very scant knowledge of the different rules of ESA, and are just set on getting them into work.... which isn't the reason they are there.
so i totally understand people see the work programme as 'punishment'

billywilly

nannytone wrote: »

i was in the WRAG for 2 years.
i was happy at the prospect of being given specific help to enable me to return to work.
in reality, they didn't have a clue what to do with me and only saw me twice.
the work programme is a sham of an idea. disabled people are just 'plonked' in with people on JSA. they attend the same interviews and are often 'forced' to comply with the same agreement that the JSA claimants have.
the work programme providers have very scant knowledge of the different rules of ESA, and are just set on getting them into work.... which isn't the reason they are there.
so i totally understand people see the work programme as 'punishment'

Based on that view and opinion it is high time that the Work Group is scrapped and included within JSA. Which leaves the Support Group - for those who clearly pass the higher test for ESA.

merlin68

More of your nonsense, some people are seriously ill in the wrag group. they just don't happen to meet the support group descriptors.

rogerblack

billywilly wrote: »

Based on that view and opinion it is high time that the Work Group is scrapped and included within JSA. Which leaves the Support Group - for those who clearly pass the higher test for ESA.

Speaking of the current tests - they very poorly capture someones actual disability or ability to work. For example.
A claimant who uses a wheelchair, can't walk and can slowly wheel himself over 200m. He can only work for 90 minutes at a time before becoming utterly exhausted, doing this a couple of times a day. He has difficulty conveying or understanding more than simple messages from strangers. Once every couple of months has a sudden accident where he loses control of his bowels. Can barely operate a washing machine. Several hours a day he can't cope with trying to talk to new people.
Is fit for work.
Someone can be significantly iller than this and be in teh work-related group.

System

merlin68 wrote: »

More of your nonsense, some people are seriously ill in the wrag group. they just don't happen to meet the support group descriptors.

I knew someone with equally bad MH problems, in fact to a degree his i'd say were worse than mine (we were under the same psychitrist), yet he was found fit for work and had to go to tribunal, yet i was in the support group each time. So i think that people can fall through the cracks. Its by no means a perfect system.

missbiggles1

merlin68 wrote: »

Well said daisy. Assessment rate esa for a couple is £115 a week, plus my £21.55 dla.
Hardly a life of luxury. Yes i get ctc and cb but they stop next august.
Im hardly able to travel the world on that amount. If any appliances go i am also up the swanny.

Most people get LHA/HB/SMI on top of the benefits you mention, although perhaps you don't.

Surely the assessment rate is only payable for a short period and then higher rate kicks in?