Why Are Young People Encouraged NOT to Label Anyone?

raven83

Labels are horrible, who wants to be pigeonholed into a category?

I've brought my girls up not to label people, see through the colour/sex etc, see people as individuals and not compartmentalise them.

ellay864

raven83 wrote: »

Labels are horrible, who wants to be pigeonholed into a category?

I've brought my girls up not to label people, see through the colour/sex etc, see people as individuals and not compartmentalise them.

But referring to somebody using a distinguishing trait isn't the same as labelling and assuming they fit a sterotype; it can simply be a method of identifying one person from another.
I totally agree with your statement that people are individuals but they will still have certain characteristics that allow them to be identified and using that shouldn't be wrong; judging them for it would be

onomatopoeia99

Fluff15 wrote: »

A horrible made up word? It literally means you are not transgender. What is wrong with that?

I was not "cisgendered" when I was eighteen, as the word didn't exist then. Someone made it up in the 1990s by jamming a Latin prefix on the front of "gender" to create an antonym for transgender because they wanted to label people. So, a horrible made-up word.

I object to assigning labels that people don't want and that includes assigning them to me as much as to anyone else. I don't care what people are or define themselves as, I won't label them with anything they don't self identify as, and they similarly should respect my right not to be so labelled. Putting labels on people is what the topic was about.

Or is it OK to put a label I reject on me because it appears I am in the majority, so I cannot have anything to complain about, as equality is only there to protect minorities? If so, that's not equality at all.

Fluff15 wrote: »

Around every two days a trans person is killed for non-gender conformity.

No idea why you bought this up, since the topic is (or was) about labels, not prejudice.

Since you did, I am fully aware of the difficulties and prejudice that anyone that differs from percieved societal norms faces, whether in terms of gender conformity, sexual preference, race, religion, or other seemingly arbitary factors, even the colour of their clothing. I abhor prejudice in all its forms. This is topic is about labelling though, not about prejudice.

I have friends that have faced such prejudice and be assured I in no way underestimate the problem. I am a member of a organisation that campaigns for (amongst other things) equality and was involved in the campaign for equal marriage, something I had been calling for over a decade before it became law (although I would argue current legislation does not go far enough, but that's way off topic now)..

Fluff15 wrote: »

Don't you dare think being labelled cisgender is anywhere near as offensive as the struggle of trans people.

You are telling me what to think? That's rather Orwellian .

I made no comparison in struggles or degrees of offensiveness, you introduced those. Why? Those things are important in the wider context of society, but not relevant in the context of a discussion of labels. Introducing them here is simly clouding the issue by adding irrelevant information.

I was pointing out the irony of someone complaining about being labelled in a way that they don't self-identify with, then going on to use a label that I reject on me. That was all.

I would argue that placing unwanted labels on groups does promote prejudice. In my case, when a person that self-identifies as transgendered calls me cisgendered *which is an unwanted label*, it makes me wonder why I bothered campaigning for them to be included in equal marriage and for that absurd requirement for them to divorce an existing spouse in order to be recognised by the state in their new gender to be removed.

I don't self identify as anything-gendered. I am me, the only things I self-identify as are listed in the first line of my signature under this post. I object to being put in a box unless I tell you I fit in that box and it is OK to put me in it.

BrassicWoman

Loz01 wrote: »

So by your theory, people who are transgender aren't normal?

and don't forget that gender and sexuality are the same thing *eye roll*

may be best to leave them to reading the daily mail.... not really interested in understanding, just in putting down people who are different

raven83

It is a real bug bear for me when people label's people sexuality and gender. Personally, I have never seen the "label" and just accept them, if they are happy and feel comfortable in who they are, who the hell am I to label them or make any kind of judgements. It's like I hate all the gay/straight/labels, sexuality isn't always black and white.

lostinrates

raven83 wrote: »

Labels are horrible, who wants to be pigeonholed into a category?

I've brought my girls up not to label people, see through the colour/sex etc, see people as individuals and not compartmentalise them.

I think I see people as individuals. Our circle is pretty diverse and I love that. I down&'the feel my friends are limited ( or should be ) by sex, colour, sexuality, looks etc. but their sex, colour and sexuality and looks can be things I love about them. Why would I want to see through something that is part of their make up? Its beautiful and part of them? Compartmentalise them no, I agree, but ignore? Fail to see? , their colour, their sexuality, their good looking or goofy faces their political views....whether I agree or think they are wildly ridiculous, its part of who they are!

raven83

lostinrates wrote: »

I think I see people as individuals. Our circle is pretty diverse and I love that. I down&'the feel my friends are limited ( or should be ) by sex, colour, sexuality, looks etc. but their sex, colour and sexuality and looks can be things I love about them. Why would I want to see through something that is part of their make up? Its beautiful and part of them? Compartmentalise them no, I agree, but ignore? Fail to see? , their colour, their sexuality, their good looking or goofy faces their political views....whether I agree or think they are wildly ridiculous, its part of who they are!

I do agree totally what you are saying. It is just so hard sometimes, because I feel if I dare label someone, they will be offended, but I agree, people are beautiful in every form and it should be embraced.

lostinrates

raven83 wrote: »

It is a real bug bear for me when people label's people sexuality and gender. Personally, I have never seen the "label" and just accept them, if they are happy and feel comfortable in who they are, who the hell am I to label them or make any kind of judgements. It's like I hate all the gay/straight/labels, sexuality isn't always black and white.

We'll, I'd feel pretty insensitive introducing people of the wrong sex and sexuality to each other when bother single, in the hopes of match making......

' I have a friend I'd love you to meet'

'Really? ..'

'Well, I don't want to put any labels on them so lets just stick to the facts, fits the 31 to 40 age bracket,.... No, that's all I got that doesn't potentially label them....come and meet on Friday'


So many things potentially label. We naturally try an make connections (of logic or otherwise). Its interesting how above labelling wasn't ok until is came up, and then it was ok to label some people as readers of a particular newspaper.....


And for some people they ARE just one sexuality and comfortable and secure with it. Lucky them, to know who they are . One thing of life's list of self discovery.

pathtofreedom

I think there is a balance between labels people apply to themselves and ones others impose on people. Both of which can be limiting and freeing in different measures.

I don't think anyone is normal, I'd be offended if someone accused me of being that. I think normal is dangerous as it can make people hide things, if they don't feel comfortable being outside their peer group of normals, and can't then do or express something due to this peer pressure which can have unintended consequences on the back of the smallest offhand comments. Even things as simple as hanging out on this forum and using vouchers, or over paying a mortgage, some people might be embarrassed to admit this to their friends, and be worried they aren't normal by getting a new car every 2 years or something which is how people end up in debt keeping up with the imaginary jones. It is the differences between us all that makes life interesting

Some labels eg dyslexia, aspergers, transgender, gay/lesbian are quite black and white for their definitions so if someone is aware of the definition they understand the general characteristics of the label, so can be helpful and empowering even for a person to define themselves this way. As they have a peer group even if it isn't amongst their friends, but understanding you belong and aren't the only one doing something and you're not mad brings comfort, especially if normals are trying to change you in ways you just can't.

It is more the labels which are too broad with shades of gray, and may have negative meanings at some point can cause more problems. Eg black, bi, muslim, nerd, hipster, as not every person you meet from each group will behave or be exactly the same so it depends on the intent of the label and how it is used. If it is more factual in intent rather than trying to be derogatory then that is different but this is how stereotypes can get distorted by not using enough labels and only focusing on one vague thing.

So with any label it can be used in positive and negative ways. An example, when I was 7 I was diagnosed as dyslexic with help from my school. My parents understood this to mean stupid and I was told my whole life I was lazy and stupid as I wasn't told about dyslexia. I didn't think I was stupid but I knew I wasn't normal, I spent my whole childhood confused and upset by this, as I'm sure you can imagine if you're told your stupid and lazy your whole life when other people can spell and read better than you it must be my fault and they are right. It wasn't until I was just about to take my gsce's I was told, this was only because someone else in my class was getting extra time and I mentioned it at home and then it all came out. I was dyslexic my school knew, my parents knew but no one had helped me with it just branded me lazy my whole life. If I had known earlier or someone had helped me my childhood, I would have been a much happier one rather than the terrible confusion I had.

So I think some labels are really helpful in helping to put your identity together and making you feel part of the world, even if everyone you know is nothing like you, someone out there is like this too. It is when labels are used in a negative way meant to limit someone's development by forcing a person into a sterotype which doesn't apply, or has just changed with age, that causes the problems.

Gloomendoom

tea_lover wrote: »

Cis and trans are standard antonyms, widely used.

By a very narrow section of society as a whole.