Spambots

Mandelbrot

Silk wrote: »

The problem with content filters and posting intervals is it's complicated to implement and affects the genuine posters.

The level of complication depends on a number of factors, including how you implement it, but it should be possible to do it in a way that minimises 'genuine user' collateral damage.

FPA is simple, effective and the facility is already there to implement and does not affect the regular posters.

I agree with what you say (in general).
Though there are clearly ways around it (e.g. a generic 'ordinary' first post generated by the bots).
I just wonder whether MSE would be prepared to devote the staff to a manual FPA system.
Or were you suggesting an automated FPA system?

canterswest

Silk wrote: »

That's about 8 years old

Doesn't make it not true and tells you what the business will do if it wants to.


It clearly has a huge depth of knowledge of the good and bad and the money to fight off the bad on this website, if it wants to.

Silk

Mandelbrot wrote: »

The level of complication depends on a number of factors, including how you implement it, but it should be possible to do it in a way that minimises 'genuine user' collateral damage.

Maybe, but the again were talking about measures that impact on genuine users, it needs eradicating not minimising

Mandelbrot wrote: »

I agree with what you say (in general).
Though there are clearly ways around it (e.g. a generic 'ordinary' first post generated by the bots).
I just wonder whether MSE would be prepared to devote the staff to a manual FPA system.
Or were you suggesting an automated FPA system?

The problem is they're already devoting time to it cleaning up all the time banning the bots and deleting posts etc every day and yet the posts keep coming.
Automating it may be possible long term but always runs the risk of bots overriding, meanwhile keep it simple and use human intelligence.

Mandelbrot

Silk wrote: »

The problem is they're already devoting time to it cleaning up all the time banning the bots and deleting posts etc every day and yet the posts keep coming.
Automating it may be possible long term but always runs the risk of bots overriding, meanwhile keep it simple and use human intelligence.

You might be right.
I just took a look and there have only been just over 30 new members who joined and posted their first posts so far today.
(That figure excludes the spambots, though.)

I thought it would have been more.
That level of new posters doesn't seem too many for one human to handle in FPA as part of their other duties.
Probably worth a go trying it to see how it works out in practice.

Former_MSE_Megan

Thanks for all your suggestions everyone. We're having another meeting with Tech today to discuss this issue.

We may have only had ~30 users register so far today, but we get on average 300 a day. There is much more that goes on behind the scenes to make the forum run smoothly, and this is just one part of our roles. There are two full time and one part time MSE staff members working on the forum (as well as other tasks we all have) to help our users save money.

So, FPA is not really a viable option for us. It would mean asking for legal advice any time a post is submitted, just in case we were liable for something when approving. It would also seriously limit new users. If we did do FPA, there would be no instant flagging up of bargains (we'd have to research it first), there would be no reviews of companies, good or bad, by new users. It could compromise us legally.

One of the great things about this Forum is that you can register, ask a question and get your answer pretty much straight away. Having a delay would be really annoying.

So we're working with Tech to come up with alternative ways to combat this. Tech are very busy, but the forum is a priority for them. I would just ask you to be patient with us while we work on this and we'll try and give you updates when we can.

Thanks

Silk

MSE_Megan wrote: »

We may have only had ~30 users register so far today, but we get on average 300 a day. There is much more that goes on behind the scenes to make the forum run smoothly, and this is just one part of our roles. There are two full time and one part time MSE staff members working on the forum (as well as other tasks we all have) to help our users save money.

Even if all 300 new members a day made a first post it wouldn't take long ...... It takes me about 4 seconds to open the post, spot it's spam and hit the spam button. You would be doing the same but hitting the delete button instead.
That would be about 20 minutes a day split between the three of you, even much less if you empowered the BG's with the ability too.

MSE_Megan wrote: »

So, FPA is not really a viable option for us. It would mean asking for legal advice any time a post is submitted, just in case we were liable for something when approving. It would also seriously limit new users. If we did do FPA, there would be no instant flagging up of bargains (we'd have to research it first), there would be no reviews of companies, good or bad, by new users. It could compromise us legally.

We've covered this before, there's no need to ask for Legal Advice every time someone makes a post because it needs checking for spam.
There's no difference in liability between allowing a post to go live or leaving it in place once posted by trying to claim the forum isn't moderated.
The forum is moderated, of that there is no doubt, trying to claim otherwise is ridiculous.
I'm failing to see how it's going to "seriously" limit new users ?
Yes they may experience a delay out of hours but during your office hours that would be minimal

MSE_Megan wrote: »

One of the great things about this Forum is that you can register, ask a question and get your answer pretty much straight away. Having a delay would be really annoying.

To who, the spambot ?
If someone posts in the middle of the night they are unlikely to get an answer till the following morning anyway ....meanwhile you have to sift through the spam before you spot the genuine posts !

JJ_Egan

<One of the great things about this Forum is that you can register, ask a question and get your answer pretty much straight away. Having a delay would be really annoying. >

But you have to wade through oceans of spam to get to that answer .

This is the only forum i know of that seems to have rules that benefit the spammers . I read this as those responsible do not have the required skills .Couple that with the misguided a delay would be really annoying mindset but tons of spam would not be annoying .

Or is MSE on an earner from the spammers ??

Former_MSE_Megan

Even if all 300 new members a day made a first post it wouldn't take long ...... It takes me about 4 seconds to open the post, spot it's spam and hit the spam button. You would be doing the same but hitting the delete button instead.
That would be about 20 minutes a day split between the three of you, even much less if you empowered the BG's with the ability too.

The problem with this is that we can't just look at spam, we'd have to look at ALL posts that come in.

We've covered this before, there's no need to ask for Legal Advice every time someone makes a post because it needs checking for spam.

There is, unfortunately. If we were to hold all posts for approval before they went out, filtered out the spam and posted the rest, we would be liable for any information in those published posts. If one of those posts were 'This XYZ company is breaking the law' and we approved that to be published on our site, we could be in trouble. Obviously we want to avoid legal dealings as much as we can.

To who, the spambot ?
If someone posts in the middle of the night they are unlikely to get an answer till the following morning anyway ....meanwhile you have to sift through the spam before you spot the genuine posts !

Fair enough for people that post in the middle of the night but for those that use the forum during the day and evening (which is when we have our biggest traffic peaks) it would be frustrating to have to wait potentially hours to get your answer. It would eventually deter people from joining. As for the spam, we are working on it.

marleyboy

Maybe a few designated volunteers are needed from this side of the fence, who can hit the spam button as and when they see them and offers an instant hide from the public scenario (Spam usually first appears in NEW POSTS folder), this could act as a temporary removal until the team check or confirm it is spam.

I think once a spammer has been identified by the team, an instant PPR of that member should link with the post removal.

That some spammers seem to linger for a couple of hours before a PPR is enforced gives them plenty of breathing space to flood the site before being removed, from where they simple set up a new account and start again (even if using the same ip).

Silk

MSE_Megan wrote: »

The problem with this is that we can't just look at spam, we'd have to look at ALL posts that come in.

Of course you just look for spam...it only takes a glance to realise !

MSE_Megan wrote: »

There is, unfortunately. If we were to hold all posts for approval before they went out, filtered out the spam and posted the rest, we would be liable for any information in those published posts. If one of those posts were 'This XYZ company is breaking the law' and we approved that to be published on our site, we could be in trouble. Obviously we want to avoid legal dealings as much as we can.

Rubbish ...the liability is the same whether you allow the post to go live or leave it in place ignored ....XYZ company would have no problem at all proving this forum is moderated which is why disclaimers are put in place and no endorsements made.

MSE_Megan wrote: »

Fair enough for people that post in the middle of the night but for those that use the forum during the day and evening (which is when we have our biggest traffic peaks) it would be frustrating to have to wait potentially hours to get your answer. It would eventually deter people from joining. As for the spam, we are working on it.

I'm quite sure occasions where that may happen with any urgency are few and far between and of course dependant on how quick the MSE team are able to click a post to authorise it