The Garden Fence - help and support in tough times

Nargleblast

It is fair enough that working adults in a household should have their income counted as part of total household income when benefits are calculated. After all, you can't expect a local authority to say " Ah, bless him, it's his first wage, we'll let him off this month" - they are not a benevolent organisation! As a parent of a nearly grown up son myself, I am constantly fighting the instinct to be soft on him as he needs to take on grown up responsibilities. That means, if he carries on living at home once he is earning, a fair proportion of his wage will be handed over towards the bills.

I think nursemaggie is to be commended for getting herself and her son through some difficult times, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, he has a job (albeit one with variable hours) and the two of them have to rework the finances making sure he pays a fair amount within the rules of the benefits system. I am afraid we don't get anything for nothing in this world, and I am thankful our household does not have to claim benefits, it sounds like being in a Kafka-esqe nightmare.

Nursemaggie this post is not meant to be a criticism of you in any way, from your posts it sounds like you both have had much to deal with and have done ok despite it all

ivyleaf

srn wrote: »

I think everyone's experience of efficient and inefficient companies will be very different, regardless of where they are based. If you are lucky enough to have no problems with a company, you will think them efficient and vice versa but not everyone's experiences are the same. Comments were made regarding German companies being efficient, I lived in Germany for quite a few years, speak the language fluently, so I was pretty confident dealing with utilities etc, but found that although they sounded pretty efficient they weren't. Just my experience and now I go by experience and not generalisations. There are good and bad everywhere.

Regarding the NHS, I agree with nursemaggie on the reasons for repetition and I can't imagine what it would cost for every nurse, doctor and other ancillary workers to have a tablet. I for one would rather put the money to wages to employ more doctors and nurses or for treatments. When I was nursing I couldn't do my job with a big bulky tablet in my pocket, I can't say it would last that long either with the bending, lifting, stretching etc, it would fall out of my pocket - if I had one big enough.

srn I have to chuckle a bit at this - my brother lives in Germany at the moment and he too finds German utilities etc quite inefficient, and things we are used to being able to buy here (I don't mean foodstuffs, those are bound to be a bit different of course) are either non-existent or stupidly expensive there. He had to get a new boiler last year; it was almost twice the cost of a similar one here.

ETA Where he lives, if you want to change to a different broadband company you have to give A YEAR'S NOTICE :eek: He thought he must have misunderstood when he heard that,or that the company they were with was "trying it on", but a neighbour said No, it's absolutely true.

Mind you, he lives in Bavaria and it does seem a bit of a quirky place.

silvasava

Children paying towards their keep is nearly always a bone of contention. I have always contributed when I was at home. My Dad used to say if I could find somewhere cheaper the door was open! DH said every time he went home his rent went up.As an aside we are taxed individually but any benefits are always dependant on the household income. I understand but it still rankles that DH is taxed & I'm not

srn

ivyleaf wrote: »

srn I have to chuckle a bit at this - my brother lives in Germany at the moment and he too finds German utilities etc quite inefficient, and things we are used to being able to buy here (I don't mean foodstuffs, those are bound to be a bit different of course) are either non-existent or stupidly expensive there. He had to get a new boiler last year; it was almost twice the cost of a similar one here.

ETA Where he lives, if you want to change to a different broadband company you have to give A YEAR'S NOTICE :eek: He thought he must have misunderstood when he heard that,or that the company they were with was "trying it on", but a neighbour said No, it's absolutely true.

Mind you, he lives in Bavaria and it does seem a bit of a quirky place.

I lived in Bavaria, just outside Munich, and you are quite right regarding the year's notice, the same to terminate an insurance policy we had. Luckily this was covered in my husband's relocation package or we would have been paying and not even living in the same country! Taxes and paying for healthcare are very expensive, my husband paid almost half of his salary on this, without taking into account company pension payments. You also had to pay to see the Doctor, on the scheme we were on we paid an amount, which then covered the patient for the next three months worth of GP appointments. There are different levels of health cover and also you can opt out of the state schemes (which I believe are run by private companies) and have private insurance, but I believe this is only possible if there are no children in the family, I could be wrong, it is very confusing for us people used to the NHS. As I said, some things are good, some are bad. The German friends we knew were happy to pay to receive a very good standard of healthcare, not too sure how that would go down here! You also received child benefit until the child was 25, if still in education.

srn

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I can sympathise with those 6 kids personally - as in my thoughts would have been to wonder why I had so many brothers/sisters if I were one of the children. When you're one of two you might well think "Would much prefer not to have a brother/sister - but oh well...its one sibling so...it is what it is". Having 5 siblings though...and I can well understand the children rowing about this...

Add that many parents have mortgaged accommodation (not rented) and then paying towards accommodation would mean paying towards parents acquiring a possession iyswim. I could never understand why my parents charged me so much more than my friends were paying for the couple of years I lived with them after leaving school - as their home was their own and I feel the amount charged was probably rather more than my food and fuel (and I think they might have even paid the mortgage off by that point).

Seeing as it costs, according to Google and the Telegraph, around £230,000 to bring up a child in the UK, I see no reason why a working child should not contribute a realistic amount to the household income and not just the extra for food and fuel, if they don't like it they can find their own place and then see how much it costs. Yes I do realise that children do not ask to be born and cost their poor parents all that money, but I bet they are glad that they were.

mumps

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I can sympathise with those 6 kids personally - as in my thoughts would have been to wonder why I had so many brothers/sisters if I were one of the children. When you're one of two you might well think "Would much prefer not to have a brother/sister - but oh well...its one sibling so...it is what it is". Having 5 siblings though...and I can well understand the children rowing about this...

Add that many parents have mortgaged accommodation (not rented) and then paying towards accommodation would mean paying towards parents acquiring a possession iyswim. I could never understand why my parents charged me so much more than my friends were paying for the couple of years I lived with them after leaving school - as their home was their own and I feel the amount charged was probably rather more than my food and fuel (and I think they might have even paid the mortgage off by that point).

Oh dear there weren't six siblings, just six at home and working at the time I am talking about. There were two who had left home and 4 still at school

They are actually a very close family, the parents are dead now but the twelve of them socialise and support each other. Their children are all close as well but none of their kids chose to have 12 children. I think the biggest family is 3 and a couple never had children themselves.

If you grew up in a predominantly Irish Catholic area like I did families of this size weren't that unusual, there was a family down the road with 17 children. The youngest never met the eldest, well they might have as adults but not when we were kids, as the eldest had emigrated by the time the youngest was born.

Obviously the situation is different if parents own the house or are paying the rent but if you are claiming benefits then there are rules. Just out of interest how long do you think an adult should be allowed to live with parents without paying a realistic rent whilst the rent is being paid by benefits? I can understand disregarding it for a time, not sure how long but maybe six months? But if you have someone in their 20s, or even half a dozen in their 20s, earning a good wage who do you think should be subsidising them? Just thinking of that family with six wage earners they would have been earning the equivalent of about £2 to £3k a week, variety of jobs from shop assistant to skilled mechanic, so in social housing the rent might have the equivalent of £200 a week (I don't know if that is reasonable for social housing) so maybe 6 or 7% of their wages every week plus a share of utilities and food. Probably a bargain.

greenbee

ivyleaf wrote: »

Mind you, he lives in Bavaria and it does seem a bit of a quirky place.

isn't that one of the places where you're not allowed to mow the lawn on sundays?

srn

greenbee wrote: »

isn't that one of the places where you're not allowed to mow the lawn on sundays?

Certainly is, or hang out your washing or do anything noisy like using power tools. I liked that about it. You also have to clear snow from the pavement in front of your house, even when you are on holiday, I presume you ask someone to it for you while you are away. I think, but not sure now, that you had to keep it clear between the hours of 7am and 8pm.

mardatha

Mumps, my mum came from a family like that - the eldest had emigrated to Canada before the youngest was even born.
I think it's none of anybody's business how many children a family have or how much they pay for rent. I just live and let live and get on with my own stuff.

mumps

mardatha wrote: »

Mumps, my mum came from a family like that - the eldest had emigrated to Canada before the youngest was even born.
I think it's none of anybody's business how many children a family have or how much they pay for rent. I just live and let live and get on with my own stuff.

My mother said it was common when she was a child in Ireland and alot of people she grew up with had siblings they had never met, also lots of them and nieces and nephews alot older than them. I don't have that many children, 4 in my case, but there is 20 years between eldest and youngest so they could easily be in a position where they didn't know each other and they certainly didn't grow up together.

Many big families don't seem to share Moneyistooshorttomention's worries about having siblings, I suppose some do but then as she said that happens even if there are only two. It is people's own business except when six adults with well paid jobs think the tax payer should pay their parents' rent so that they can live cheaply, I think that is then something other people are entitled to have a view on. My friend, one of the six children, was telling me how unfair it was that her parents no longer got their rent paid and the six of them had to chip in and she was surprised when I didn't think that was a scandal. I was 17, same as her, and paying rent on a nice flat with my husband. I didn't see why she should have her rent subsidised any more than I should have mine, it wouldn't have worried me but I couldn't see it was a big deal. It was different when they were all at school and her father received benefits to bring them up, children are entitled to be fed and housed but different for adults. Maybe it is different for working 16 and 17 year olds as they aren't actually adults are they. Personally I do think it would be fair to give a person a bit of grace when they first get a job, just to let them get on their feet. I would think most parents would want to do that so maybe it should be built into the system as well, of course it all comes down to money in the end and is there any to spare. Obviously it is harder if it is one child, as in the case that was originally mentioned.