Teenagers Allowance

Ziggazee

Andypandyboy wrote: »

I am surprised at those who cut off their kids at 16/17. If you are in employment then few would be earning enough to fund a decent lifestyle. I would much prefer mine stay at home a bit longer, pay a bit of "keep" and save, rather than move into a substandard flat paying rent.

I would never have asked any of mine to leave home, they had a home with us for as long as they wanted.

The incentive to go to work/study was example, they never thought of doing anything else because that was what they had grown up with.

Despite our support;) or because of it;), they have all turned into productive members of society who work hard for what they have got.

Perhaps those who are harsher will lack support from their kids when they need it most ? Who knows?

Don't say you haven't been warned

I'm not suggesting people 'cut off' their children. I was merely expressing surprise that people think it's too young. Neither did I suggest asking them to leave home. I've certainly not 'cut off' my son.......or did you not read my first posts properly?


I have no intention whatsoever of cutting my son off or asking him to leave home, I simply believe that at 16/17 they're more than capable of working, yet most of them choose not to and would rather spend their time hanging around with their friends, playing computer games, watching dvd's etc.


I also never suggested that teenagers 'work all hours' as another poster put it. But by working a few hours of a weekend or evening they're learning that things don't come for free, as well as good work ethics. If you want to mollycoddle your children then continue to do so, but don't start whining when they can't get a job because they're virtually unemployable due to having no experience, whilst the lad who worked part time in the local shop manages to bag a job.

Ziggazee

zagfles wrote: »

Yes and I'm sure in the past people said that "you're not doing your 5 year old any favours by sending them to school instead of up chimneys to earn a living"

The world's moved on. These days it's very hard for young people to get a job if they haven't got a degree, and if they do it's likely to be a menial minimum wage one. Unemployment has risen massively in the under 30's who haven't got a degree, much more than those who have. See http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_337841.pdf

I'd much prefer to subsidise my kids through education and get them into a "proper" university so they can get a decent graduate job at around £25k starting salary at 21, rather than giving them no financial support at 16 and them ending up unemployed or with some rubbish job where they'll be lucky to ever earn that much!

Pahahahaha! You really are talking silly aren't you. It's no easier for someone to get a job with a degree than without. A degree is no guarantee of a job.....especially not one earning £25k. I know loads of university graduates who have had to take, what you refer to as a 'rubbish job'. I also know loads of university graduates who simply can't get jobs or, because they think they're above it, refuse to do these 'rubbish jobs' and sponge off the government.


My son is currently at 6th form studying for his A levels......and fully intends to go to university. He's a very bright A grade student with an aptitude for maths and hoping to become an Accountant. Whether I give him monetary handouts or not has absolutely no bearing on his career aspirations.


Come back when you can talk sense

Jagraf

zagfles wrote: »

Yes and I'm sure in the past people said that "you're not doing your 5 year old any favours by sending them to school instead of up chimneys to earn a living"

The world's moved on. These days it's very hard for young people to get a job if they haven't got a degree, and if they do it's likely to be a menial minimum wage one. Unemployment has risen massively in the under 30's who haven't got a degree, much more than those who have. See http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_337841.pdf

I'd much prefer to subsidise my kids through education and get them into a "proper" university so they can get a decent graduate job at around £25k starting salary at 21, rather than giving them no financial support at 16 and them ending up unemployed or with some rubbish job where they'll be lucky to ever earn that much!

I have to say if you think that your kids can come out of uni at 21 and walk into a 25k job, without normal work experience, you're in or a shock.

I wouldn't employ any graduate who hadn't got some kind of voluntary or paid work experience, I wouldn't mind what it was.

In fact, I am much more likely to employ someone with a 2:2 who had cleaned toilets during their studies, than someone with a 1st who hadn't lifted a finger doing anything else but study.

A graduate knows very little until they can put their theory into practice. They are no cleverer than most others, they have just had opportunity.

Sometimes I would rather take on a trainee actually, with no pre-conceived ideas from their parents. I would also get them all making the tea, graduate or not.

Jagraf

zagfles wrote: »

So you think only tuition and accomodation should be subsidised? Student grants/max loans cover far more than that. Someone on a low parental income could get grants and bursaries of around £7k+ at some unis, plus loans of £4k, making a total of £11k+. All from the state/university. Why should students whose parents are richer get less?

Some students might find time to work and have a social life as well, but those doing "hard" degrees such as medicine or engineering might not - something has to give, and a student who spends all their either studying or working in a chippy with no time to relax and socialise is not likely to end up well balanced.It's not like anyone is talking big sums, I don't think anyone has mentioned giving their kids over £30pw or so - similar to EMA levels, and (in our case anyway) that includes stuff like travel to college costs, books, and college trips.

Why can't a student doing a "hard" degree work in a chippie? How are they going to juggle responsibilities when they work full time?

zagfles

Ziggazee wrote: »

Pahahahaha! You really are talking silly aren't you. It's no easier for someone to get a job with a degree than without. A degree is no guarantee of a job.....especially not one earning £25k. I know loads of university graduates who have had to take, what you refer to as a 'rubbish job'. I also know loads of university graduates who simply can't get jobs or, because they think they're above it, refuse to do these 'rubbish jobs' and sponge off the government.

Try reading the link I quoted, from official govt statistics which show that unemployment amongst non-graduates is far higher than amogst graduates. Also that average salaries for graduates average around £28k or so, about £35k or so if a "Russell group" university.

You stick to "well those I know..." anecdotes if it makes you feel better.

zagfles

Jagraf wrote: »

I have to say if you think that your kids can come out of uni at 21 and walk into a 25k job, without normal work experience, you're in or a shock.

Really? My nephew did just a couple of years ago.

I wouldn't employ any graduate who hadn't got some kind of voluntary or paid work experience, I wouldn't mind what it was.

Well my DD will have that - as I said above the degree course she's likely to be doing will involves a year out working abroad so she'll get more and better work experience than if she got some dead end job in a chippy etc at age 16. She's also going to do a bit of voluntary work in the school.

In fact, I am much more likely to employ someone with a 2:2 who had cleaned toilets during their studies, than someone with a 1st who hadn't lifted a finger doing anything else but study.

A graduate knows very little until they can put their theory into practice. They are no cleverer than most others, they have just had opportunity.

Sometimes I would rather take on a trainee actually, with no pre-conceived ideas from their parents. I would also get them all making the tea, graduate or not.

You must work somewhere really old-fashioned, do you really get other people to make your tea?;)

zagfles

Jagraf wrote: »

Why can't a student doing a "hard" degree work in a chippie? How are they going to juggle responsibilities when they work full time?

When I got a job I found I had far more free time than when at uni, weekends were actually totally mine, it was bliss, no pressure to study!

Jagraf

zagfles wrote: »

Try reading the link I quoted, from official govt statistics which show that unemployment amongst non-graduates is far higher than amogst graduates. Also that average salaries for graduates average around £28k or so, about £35k or so if a "Russell group" university.

You stick to "well those I know..." anecdotes if it makes you feel better.

Can you break that down into how many had work experience? For example, it is almost impossible to get into med school without paid or voluntary work experience, not necessarily to do with medicine, but to show life skills, and the ability to be responsible.

Straight As are seen as the norm and universities want to see that you can manage these AND work. I assume it is the same with engineering.

As for Russell Group universities, this is generally relating to specific sectors. Again this is nothing to do with ability once at university, ore to do with the quality of lecturers.

Jagraf

zagfles wrote: »

Really? My nephew did just a couple of years ago. Well my DD will have that - as I said above the degree course she's likely to be doing will involves a year out working abroad so she'll get more and better work experience than if she got some dead end job in a chippy etc at age 16. She's also going to do a bit of voluntary work in the school. You must work somewhere really old-fashioned, do you really get other people to make your tea?;)

Everyone on her course is no doubt going to do a year abroad as part of their course, its no big deal.

Everyone is going to do their work experience at school.

We all make tea actually, no one is above that. Some people just think they are. People start jobs, especially after uni, with all kinds of pre-conceived ideas about what the work place is like (if they haven't been in one before). Don't know where they get those ideas from! Graduates have theory and knowledge but very little practice, so they have to learn the ropes and feel part of an equal team. Working in, for example, a chip shop, shows how to,work as part of a team, be customer facing, work hard under pressure, and be committed.

I worked in graduate recruitment for years. I worked in training with 16-21 year olds for years.

Just my opinion based on experience.

Good luck. My DD wants to go to medical school, so I am as keen for her to succeed as you are your kids. Mine can work in a chippy, it shows she hasn't got a chip on her shoulder (pardon the pun).

Based on your statistics Re graduate employment of 1 person, I take your point .....

zagfles

Jagraf wrote: »

Can you break that down into how many had work experience? For example, it is almost impossible to get into med school without paid or voluntary work experience, not necessarily to do with medicine, but to show life skills, and the ability to be responsible.

They usually want relevant experience. Here's a few links for work experience suggestions for medicine:

http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/medicine

To develop understanding of what a career in Medicine involves and your suitability for your intended profession, you’re strongly advised (though not required) to undertake some relevant work experience (either paid or voluntary) in a health or related area.

https://www.uea.ac.uk/study/admissions-info/a100faq

If possible, but this is not a specific requirement. However, it is important that, prior to committing to 5 years intensive study, that you find out as much as you can about being a doctor. Any experience that gives you an insight into your suitability to the profession is valuable. Such experience may include work experience in a health care organisation (e.g. a hospital, hospice, or primary care setting), a regular commitment as a volunteer in a care-related setting, or paid employment as a health care assistant or similar.

So I don't think a job in a chippy would count! Unless perhaps there were regular accidents with hot oil :rotfl:

As for Russell Group universities, this is generally relating to specific sectors. Again this is nothing to do with ability once at university, ore to do with the quality of lecturers.

What do you mean by that? The govt stats show the average "Russell group" graduate salary is around £35k, across all sectors and degrees.