MSE News: Legality of private parking fines to be tested in court today

enfield_freddy

a:however in the cut throat retail market , no supermarket can afford to charge for its car park.


b: a lot of town centre supermarkets were only given planning permission , on the grounds that they allowed local people to park , whilst finishing there weekly shop elsewere


(aldi corporation st preston)


this cannot simply be revoked , as it was in the planning consent

Dublindel

Where oarking is FREE business will prosper. My town used to have free car parks all around the town and the town centre was booming, now we have ppc and either empty or bucket shops and a ghost town feel due to lack of shoppers.

hoohoo

Iaino wrote: »

I hope you all realise that if the parking companies lose these cases and are told that they can only impose maximum penalties of £10 or something, the only thing that will happen is that the car parks will become unprofitable in their current form. As such, they will need to start charging more for people to park there, and the type of car park where you currently get two hours' free parking will become a thing of the past.

So, you might be celebrating the potential downfall of the PPCs today, but I hope you all bear this in mind when from now on you have to pay more every time you park your car because a few people stayed longer than they should have and were too cheap to pay the penalty.

You mean like in Scotland? Oh...wait!

wiogs

Iaino wrote: »

I hope you all realise that if the parking companies lose these cases and are told that they can only impose maximum penalties of £10 or something, the only thing that will happen is that the car parks will become unprofitable in their current form. As such, they will need to start charging more for people to park there, and the type of car park where you currently get two hours' free parking will become a thing of the past.

So, you might be celebrating the potential downfall of the PPCs today, but I hope you all bear this in mind when from now on you have to pay more every time you park your car because a few people stayed longer than they should have and were too cheap to pay the penalty.

Yes indeed it will be Armageddon.....


I think this video sums up what would happen if these charges are found to be unlawful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

Cornucopia

Iaino wrote: »

I hope you all realise that if the parking companies lose these cases and are told that they can only impose maximum penalties of £10 or something, the only thing that will happen is that the car parks will become unprofitable in their current form. As such, they will need to start charging more for people to park there, and the type of car park where you currently get two hours' free parking will become a thing of the past.

So, you might be celebrating the potential downfall of the PPCs today, but I hope you all bear this in mind when from now on you have to pay more every time you park your car because a few people stayed longer than they should have and were too cheap to pay the penalty.

Sorry, but no.

There are various outcomes that could come from this, depending not on the greed of a few PPCs & Landowners, but on the necessities of the space concerned.

1. The Parking could be paid for. I'm fine with that, if it makes sense for the Landowner & his tenants. Retailers may well find it in their interests to refund the charges.

2. Parking could be subject to a notional fee (10p) for an initial period, with a much higher fee (£10) for longer periods.

3. Landowners could pay PPCs to patrol, and penalty charges could be a genuine estimate of loss. (Hmm... sounds familiar).

4. Where appropriate, car parks, or even individual spaces could be subject to physical protection, such that only someone with permission can park there, possibly upon payment of a deposit.

If the Courts have any common sense whatsoever, they will realise that allowing the Law to be manipulated in the way the PPCs currently work brings it into disrepute - which is in no one's interest.

nigelbb

Iaino wrote: »

I hope you all realise that if the parking companies lose these cases and are told that they can only impose maximum penalties of £10 or something, the only thing that will happen is that the car parks will become unprofitable in their current form. As such, they will need to start charging more for people to park there, and the type of car park where you currently get two hours' free parking will become a thing of the past.

So, you might be celebrating the potential downfall of the PPCs today, but I hope you all bear this in mind when from now on you have to pay more every time you park your car because a few people stayed longer than they should have and were too cheap to pay the penalty.

Why do supermarket car parks need to make a profit for a 3rd party? or indeed any profit at all? Free car parking is offered as an incentive to lure shoppers into their establishment rather than those of a rival. How are people to buy a weekly shop without a car to carry it all home? In an out of town retail park why on earth would anyone other than a shopper park there other than to visit the stores?

Town centre car parks that may be abused by commuters can charge for parking with a refund to genuine shoppers. There are plenty of examples of this model. Usually it's a voucher at the till & a barrier at the exit. In the good old days it used to be that you handed your voucher to an attendant & goodness knows why that isn't used now as a minimum wage pensioner is a trivial cost for the supermarket.

ManxRed

Iaino wrote: »

I hope you all realise that if the parking companies lose these cases and are told that they can only impose maximum penalties of £10 or something, the only thing that will happen is that the car parks will become unprofitable in their current form. As such, they will need to start charging more for people to park there, and the type of car park where you currently get two hours' free parking will become a thing of the past.

So, you might be celebrating the potential downfall of the PPCs today, but I hope you all bear this in mind when from now on you have to pay more every time you park your car because a few people stayed longer than they should have and were too cheap to pay the penalty.

As the PPCs currently keep all the money, the profitability of the car park won't be affected in the slightest.

Cornucopia

The refund tickets are generally associated with Pay & Display. Which is preferred over barriers because the costs of installation are lower. If PPC penalty charges were outlawed, Pay & Display would probably be less favoured because penalising abuse would be more difficult (or impossible).

All of this comes down to money. If it's no longer possible/feasible to deliver free parking management on the back of profits derived from breaches of the Ts & Cs, then Landowners will have to do something else - there are plenty of other possibilities, including doing nothing.

salmosalaris

And there are plenty of examples of landowners kicking off aggressive PPC's and managing without once they realised the PPC caused them more hassle on the back of their promise to solve a problem that never actually existed in the first place .

nigelbb

Cornucopia wrote: »

The refund tickets are generally associated with Pay & Display. Which is preferred over barriers because the costs of installation are lower.

Not in the car parks I've seen. It's usually a barrier nowadays but it would be quicker easier & cheaper to employ a minimum wage pensioner to collect the vouchers at the exit.