The Liverpool Allen case result:

Mark2spark

DrA_Harrogate wrote: »

This is a real puzzle. On their own website 2birds reveal their opinion that this duck is dead:


"it is difficult to see how a carrier could ever invoke an article 5(3) defence successfully in the case of delay or cancellation caused by a technical problem – if an unexpected, unforeseen and unforeseeable technical problem is insufficient, what technical problem could be sufficient?"

AS

A tech problem caused by a third party of course.
Football supporters on the way back from a match jumping on the wing and jumping up and down and damaging the flaps/something else.
A passenger bringing on board something off the 'banned' list that then caught fire and caused an evacuation.
Good old terrorist attack, doesn't have to be a bazooka from the perimeter fence, could be a baggage handler in disguise crashing a truck into the plane/refuelling rig etc

It's what is meant in the pre-amble. A tech issue can be an EC. But not if it's inherent in the day to day running etc

Considering 2b's et al are supposed to be highly trained and worth £200+ an hour.... well, they're pretty thick really aren't they?

mrtonygibson

The judge in my claim gave 28 days for 2bs to give directions following Allen case. This was because they applied for stay due to vdl. The wait goes on but nice to see flybe appear to have flown the nest of bad eggs.

NoviceAngel

mrtonygibson wrote: »

The judge in my claim gave 28 days for 2bs to give directions following Allen case. This was because they applied for stay due to vdl. The wait goes on but nice to see flybe appear to have flown the nest of bad eggs.

Do keep us informed Tony, as it will be very interesting to hear what the birds do post Allen.

Kim_Allen

NoviceAngel wrote: »

More news today about the Allen case on Radio 5 Live, MSE's Martin Lewis and David Bott from Bott & Co discuss flight delay compensation, worth a listen, last half hour of the broadcast.

Thanks to Tyzap, for pointing me to this.

Interesting that David Bott said the airlines are 'unlikely to appeal', lets hope so.

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

I listened to this and would just like to comment on Martin's statements as to whether it's morally right to claim, even if it's your legal right, and that these rules may not be fair to the airlines, suggesting that compensation should be capped to the cost of the ticket.

I am a frequent traveller and I understand that there are unforeseen circumstances that result in delays and cancellations. However, the airlines should have a reasonable expectation that things can go wrong and should have contingency plans in place, ie replacement parts or access to them where the airline operates, in order to minimise delays. Jet2 in my opinion is the best of all the budget airlines and I travel with them frequently. Normally I cannot fault them but in this instance they didn't look after us very well and didn't keep us informed. With check in time we were waiting either on the plane or in the airport for a total of about nine hours. When we were sat on the plane we weren't even offered water and they couldn't turn the air conditioning on as the engines had to stay off whilst they were attempting to fix the fault. Fair enough, they didn't want us to disembark in case we were able to depart but the plane was boiling. Eventually it was decided that they had to bring in another plane and we went back to the airport. Whilst we were waiting we spent money on food and refreshments. When they finally gave us vouchers, after a six hour delay, the vouchers were only valid for airport outlets that had already closed and so they were useless. Also due to our final arrival time being in the very early hours of the morning we missed our airport transfer and had to pay for a taxi, which cost more than the flight. Not huge amounts but an unexpected cost nevertheless. I can see Martin's point about capping the compensation but in my case, apart from missing the event that we were flying to Malaga for, we incurred extra costs that were more than the airfare. So if compensation was capped we would still be out of pocket. Families on an all inclusive holiday may not budget for, or be able to afford, unexpected expenses and it is unfair that they should be expected to withstand those costs.

After about six hours Jet2 gave us a letter stating that we could choose not to travel and have a refund or take the next available flight. Cancelling our holiday was not an option and the next available flight was the one we were waiting for. That just made me cross, we weren't about to go home after we'd been waiting for so long! Had we been given that letter earlier we could have looked for availability on a flight with a different airline and then accepted the refund.

When I wrote to Jet2 to make a claim they attempted to fob me off several times, in the first instance saying that you had to make a claim within 2 years. It is my understanding that you can make a claim within 6 years (not 5 years as Martin said on Radio 5) and in any case my claim was within 18 months… and so it went on until I finally gave up and handed the case over to Bott & Co. I suspect that in most cases people give up, which of course is the desired result.

I take Martin's point on whether it is morally right to claim but I feel that the airlines also have a moral responsibility to look after their customers and if they did, I certainly would be less inclined to make a claim. There's also the unknown domino effect a delayed flight may have on passengers, missed connections etc. I was delayed on an Easyjet flight to Geneva some years ago which meant I missed the last mountain train to our resort and accommodation. I was travelling with 4 young children and was stranded at Geneva airport late at night with nowhere to stay. I went to the Easyjet Customer Services desk, which fortunately was still open, and they provided dinner, bed and breakfast for us in a hotel near the airport. I was more than happy and would not have dreamt of claiming for compensation. That is how I wish to be treated.

Martin said that he is concerned that the end result will be higher air fares. It doesn't appear that this will result in higher fares..

A report published by the European Commission in May 2014 titled ‘Complaint handling and enforcement by Member States of the Air Passenger Rights Regulations’ found that “…the EU rules on passenger rights … corresponds approximately to between €1 and €3 per one-way ticket.”

I can't post a link here but the full article can be read on Bott & Co's website, search for "What Does The Huzar V Jet2.com Judgment Mean For Ticket Prices On Flights?"

I am delighted that we won the case but now we have to wait and see if the airlines deploy further delaying tactics.

Finally, a big thank you to Martin. It was through him that I first became aware of my eligibility for compensation. I initially used his template letter and I found Bott & Co through these forums. Without Martin Lewis and firms like Bott & Co the airlines would still be fobbing us all off!

NoviceAngel

Kim_Allen wrote: »

.........
I am delighted that we won the case but now we have to wait and see if the airlines deploy further delaying tactics.

Finally, a big thank you to Martin. It was through him that I first became aware of my eligibility for compensation. I initially used his template letter and I found Bott & Co through these forums. Without Martin Lewis and firms like Bott & Co the airlines would still be fobbing us all off!

Congratulations and welcome to our little world Kim.:T

It must seem strange coming in here, and finding a thread all about your case, and reading my account of how your case went. I didn't notice you in Court, did you attend ?

You make some very good points about the increase in fares should everyone claim, and we all know from reading the figures Mr Charles Bear referred to that most passengers give up at the first fobb off letter from Jet2.

Nice to have you in here, the thread feels complete now

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

EDIT and the link you referenced http://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-compensation-latest-news/what-does-huzar-v-jet2-judgment-mean-for-ticket-prices-on-flights

Kim_Allen

Yes it feels very strange! It's very strange to see my name on the internet and hear it on the radio, news etc. too! It was just a fluke that my case was chosen as a test case, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary, just wrote a few letters, but then I don't like being fobbed off! I knew I was in the right because of the information provided by Martin. All the hard work has been done by Bott & Co and hopefully this result will mean the airlines will pay out the compensation everyone is owed.

In answer to your question, I didn't go to court as I was advised it wasn't necessary and likely to be a long day. Still got the right result though!

NoviceAngel

Kim_Allen wrote: »

Yes it feels very strange! It's very strange to see my name on the internet and hear it on the radio, news etc. too! It was just a fluke that my case was chosen as a test case, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary, just wrote a few letters, but then I don't like being fobbed off! I knew I was in the right because of the information provided by Martin. All the hard work has been done by Bott & Co and hopefully this result will mean the airlines will pay out the compensation everyone is owed.

In answer to your question, I didn't go to court as I was advised it wasn't necessary and likely to be a long day. Still got the right result though!

There were quite a few of us yawning with the 2 1/2 hour opening statement of Mr Charles Bear. As a non-legal person it was great to witness your case.

Mr Huzar, said exactly the same thing about his case, a very unassuming, quiet chap, but his case was just at the right time for Bott & Co to take it further, and like yourself he felt that he had been treated terribly unfairly by Jet2. Then also that the Judge had erred in law, that ultimately went to the Supreme Court for clarification.

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

Kim_Allen

I have just found my original account and the thread that I posted on way back in 2013. I had completely forgotten about both. Anyway I have to thank @111KAB who directed me to Bott & Co. I have sent you a message but it doesn't appear to be in my sent box so I don't know if you have received it but thank you!

NoviceAngel

Kim_Allen wrote: »

I have just found my original account and the thread that I posted on way back in 2013. I had completely forgotten about both. Anyway I have to thank @111KAB who directed me to Bott & Co. I have sent you a message but it doesn't appear to be in my sent box so I don't know if you have received it but thank you!

It would have reached 111KAB, the forum software doesn't automatically place sent messages in the sent folder, it's an option you have to select.

I'd like to read your original post, if you'd like to post what username you originally posted under.

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

Kim_Allen

It was kimberleyallen in the thread "Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Jet2.com ONLY" Reading through it I owe thanks to others too who offered advice, as well as 111KAB, namely yourself NoviceAngel, Vauban & JPears. Thank you everyone