Parking ticket at Amersham Hospital

imp566

Back in October, my wife was issued a parking ticket at Amersham Hospital. We have refused to pay so far, and it has escalated from the original £30 to now having a debt recovery agency (Debt Recovery Plus Ltd) issue a notice to say we now owe £120.

The circumstances of this fine really irk me. At Amersham Hospital, they employ 2 different parking systems. The NHS Trust employs a parking attendant to police the car park during the day, who manages the car parking by directing staff to "double park", ie block another car in, as long as a note is placed on the windscreen with a phone number, which can be called to have the car moved if necessary. The system, in a car park with limited space, works very well, with little problem of people refusing to move their car if necessary. At 1600, UKPC takes over for the evening. They do not allow this system to continue, despite the fact that most of the staff work beyond 1600. As you can imagine, not all staff are able to move their car if they are busy at work, assisting patients, managing clinics etc. The parking notice we received shows a picture of the car parked outside of the bay, as directed by the attendant that morning. The time stated on the letter is 1612, although there is nothing to corroborate that the photograph was taken at that time.

I am prepared to challenge the ticket, but not sure who I should challenge it through. I have no doubt if I go back to UKPC or DRP they will merely confirm that the ticket was issued fairly and we must pay. My main concern is that a bailiff will be sent to the house to recover goods to the value of the penalty notice if we don't pay in full on the spot.

Has anyone got advice for me?

Fruitcake

In no particular order: -


Ignore DRP. Do not make contact with them, ever, no matter how much red ink they may use on the free bog paper they may send you.

Bailifs will not come to your house unless you invite them round for tea.

Read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES.

Complain to the hospital board/CEO and PALS.

Appeal to the PPC using the standard template appeal in the NEWBIES thread. Do not pay, do not ignore, do not reveal who was driving.

imp566

Fruitcake

Thank you for the speedy response. In answer to some of the points you raised. My wife has in the past challenged the system at Amersham Hospital with the NHS Trust on behalf of others as part of her role. No satisfaction there, they say it is a private matter between the car driver and UKPC - although the NHS Trust creams off a percentage of any money raised, so they would, wouldn't they?

She does know people who have had bailiffis arrive at the door, although I don't know how high the bill has escalated to before this happened. I know you say it won't happen, but there is always that nagging doubt that they just may!

I appreciate your comments, thanks.

Fruitcake

imp566 wrote: »

Fruitcake

Thank you for the speedy response. In answer to some of the points you raised. My wife has in the past challenged the system at Amersham Hospital with the NHS Trust on behalf of others as part of her role. No satisfaction there, they say it is a private matter between the car driver and UKPC - although the NHS Trust creams off a percentage of any money raised, so they would, wouldn't they?

She does know people who have had bailiffis arrive at the door, although I don't know how high the bill has escalated to before this happened. I know you say it won't happen, but there is always that nagging doubt that they just may!

I appreciate your comments, thanks.

In order for bailiffs to appear at your house you would need to have lost in court, then not paid any monies due, then bailiffs appointed by the court.
Debt collectors have absolutely NO powers what so ever to reclaim alleged monies due. Only the landowner or the PPC can take you to court and it won't get that far because you will beat the scammers well before then.


The hospital are telling your wife porky pies. They have employed the PPC so they (the hospital trust) are the principal and the parking company are acting as their agents. Everything the PPC does is at the instruction of the hospital so they are liable.

Redx

if you had read the Autumn Statement by Jeremy Hunt you would know that he stated that all trusts are jointly liable and are ultimately responsible for the actions of their contractors, specifically a PPC

so yes it is "their" problem and regardless of the past its up to the employees and unions to ensure that these trusts follow the guidelines set down by the secretary of state

as for bailiffs, you are worrying needlessly, especially as its been explained hundreds of times that bailiffs cannot attend your property without a court order

so to have a bailiff attend the following must happen

they take the RK to court
they win in court
the judge awards a sum of money
this has to be paid within 28 days
this isnt paid so an enforcement order is sought by the creditor
bailiffs seek to enforce the enforcement order


without that turn of events, no bailiffs will turn up, so my opinion is that you havent researched this subject properly

so do as fruitcake said, stop worrying and start to fight back , including complaining to your MP as well (like I did) and giving them a copy of the J Hunt statement (ditto with the union too)

its not doing anything that allows this to continue and having "nagging doubts" is due to not researching the subject properly, but at least you started to do so with this thread, so wise up

DRP are powerless so IGNORE DRP , if wondering why , read the DC post in the NEWBIES sticky thread - in fact, read it all anyway, get up to speed on this and DO something about it , including fighting the trust using PALS and the union etc

so send the template letter to UKPC, "AS IS" , or with the rant section removed , from the RK, not admitting who the driver was (even if its "obvious" who was driving)

some similar reading for you below

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5149688

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5141607

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5132338

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5127809

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5125330

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5121171

the silly thing was not appealing in the first instance after the NTK and then taking it to popla where it would have been won by you by now (had they not cancelled it)

its not clear from your posts if an NTK was ever issued

it reads as if the oct 2014 ticket was a windscreen ticket, in which case an NTK should have arrived between day 29 and day 56 , unless there was no windscreen ticket and the original notice was the postal NTK ?

so assuming the original notice was a windscreen ticket, did the NTK ever arrive ? if so , how many days after the windscreen ticket did it arrive ?

if it arrived in december, get that template letter off asap to UKPC

imp566

Thanks all, very helpful.

imp566

Interesting development today. After sending them the letter suggested earlier in the thread, a few weeks ago we had a letter back reinforcing their position and telling us that they were referring the matter to their legal representatives with a view to court action for recovery of the fine (escalated at the time to £120).

Today we got another letter offering a reduced fine of £96 if we paid straight away as a gesture of goodwill and to avoid the need to go through a "costly court case"!

My thoughts are that they are weakening and will probably eventually drop the issue if we don't pay up. However, in the letter they do remind us of the perils of having a court case pending and the costs associated, not to mention the effect on our credit rating if convicted.

What are people's thoughts?

ezerscrooge

UKPC have only done court when they've been taken there themselves for trespass (twice I believe).

How odd, that the trust has 2 systems running - with a switch at 4pm. Is that clearly stated on signage? I would guess it is not.

After all, when your wife parked, she was following the directions of the Trust's parking attendant - that UKPC follow another set of 'rules' is irrelevant.

IF it ever came to court, you would be well briefed by the experts on here so don't worry about the threatograms. You cannot get a CCJ, do not have a court case pending (unless they issue formal court papers or MCOL), and bailiffs can only turn up if you lose the case AND refuse to pay.

People get confused between bailiffs and debt collectors. Bailiffs are individuals who are granted the legal right to recover possessions on behalf of a court - hence the court order - and you'll know about that in good time.

Then there are debt collectors. They are not bailiffs and it is illegal for any debt collector to act in a way so as to convince you that they have the same powers as a bailiff - and they cannot turn up at your door without notifying you in advance of the visit. They are are not allowed to take away personal property without your permission and can only visit to discuss the repayment of debt.

So, if UKPC want to force the money out of you, they have to take you to court, which takes us back to the top of this posting....

imp566

Very helpful everyone, holding tight and waiting to see what comes next. I suspect this will "quietly go away".

Fergie76

Ask to see the Trust Car Parking Policy document, plus any contracts they have in place with PPC's.

Fergie76

By see, I mean FOI the hospital. To avoid them refusing the FOI to the contract on commercial grounds have a look at my thread and include something along those lines in your original request.