Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Wasn't it in the conservative manifesto for the 2010 election as well and only not progressed in the last parliament because the lib dems wouldn't support it so it didn't get into the coalition agreement or whatever.

Yup, it was in the manifesto.

https://www.conservatives.com/~/media/files/activist%20centre/press%20and%20policy/manifestos/manifesto2010

Page 124-5 of the file/113-4 of the document.

Apparently they don't have the internet in Scotland nor learn about UK politics so don't know about Conservative and UKIP policy.

Leanne1812

Generali wrote: »

The more you play the man not the ball the more I think I'm right

Surely you're not so blind to UK politics you didn't realise that two of the four biggest parties in the UK was offering an EU referendum. It's hardly the fault of UK politicians if you CBA to read the newspapers.

Oh come on, neither myself or Shakes is denying that David Cameron did promise a ref on the EU should he be re-elected.

The point was pre Scottish ref we were consistently told if we vote Yes we will be excluded from the EU. No ifs, no buts, out!

The EU ref was hardly drummed into us, pretty low key I'd say. Let's face it, the PM does not want to even have one. Rising support from UKIP put him under pressure to call one.

Anyway we are where we are.

I'll respond to labman later.

Voted Yes btw. No doubt you strongly suspected that.

chewmylegoff

My recollection is that the argument was that staying in the UK was the only way that Scottish people could actually have a say in whether they remained in the EU or not as if Scotland were to cede then you would be beholden to the EU's decision of whether it would let you join and if so on what terms (eg forced Euro adopted etc).

That said, I'm not on twitter either, so perhaps I missed the real communications.

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Oh come on, neither myself or Shakes is denying that David Cameron did promise a ref on the EU should he be re-elected.

The point was pre Scottish ref we were consistently told if we vote Yes we will be excluded from the EU. No ifs, no buts, out!

The EU ref was hardly drummed into us, pretty low key I'd say. Let's face it, the PM does not want to even have one. Rising support from UKIP put him under pressure to call one.

Anyway we are where we are.

I'll respond to labman later.

Voted Yes btw. No doubt you strongly suspected that.

I see no inconsistency.

1. If Scotland voted Yes it would have left the EU and then may, or may not, have been able to negotiate to become a member.
2. If Scotland voted No (as they did) Scotland would remain part of the UK and if the UK (including Scotland) voted to leave the EU then Scotland (as a part of the UK) would leave the EU.

It really isn't that hard.

Scots voted No in the referendum and so left Foreign Policy in the hands of the UK Government. I realise that you haven't gotten over it yet but there really must come a time when you accept that your fellow countrymen want to stay as a part of the UK.

I guess you have moved from denial to anger. Bargaining comes next followed by depression and acceptance.

I hope you can get through this and move on with your life.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Oh come on, neither myself or Shakes is denying that David Cameron did promise a ref on the EU should he be re-elected.

The point was pre Scottish ref we were consistently told if we vote Yes we will be excluded from the EU. No ifs, no buts, out!
.

So what are you complaining about?

1) If Scotland voted Yes we'd be out of the EU - Fact

2) If the Tories won they had a manifesto pledge to hold a EuroRef - Fact

Nobody lied....

Leanne1812

Generali wrote: »

I see no inconsistency.

1. If Scotland voted Yes it would have left the EU and then may, or may not, have been able to negotiate to become a member.
2. If Scotland voted No (as they did) Scotland would remain part of the UK and if the UK (including Scotland) voted to leave the EU then Scotland (as a part of the UK) would leave the EU.

It really isn't that hard.

Scots voted No in the referendum and so left Foreign Policy in the hands of the UK Government. I realise that you haven't gotten over it yet but there really must come a time when you accept that your fellow countrymen want to stay as a part of the UK.

I guess you have moved from denial to anger. Bargaining comes next followed by depression and acceptance.

I hope you can get through this and move on with your life.

Gen, I moved on a long time ago. Still, I did have a giggle at your suggestion I need to.

It's quite bizarre that a person who lives on the other side of the world should be so interested don't you think? After all whatever happened/happens should have no bearing on your future. A great many people ( yourself included ) still take an active interest in Scottish & UK politics. It's a good thing surely. Or should those who disagree with you just go back to sleep? Some would quite like that I'd imagine.

It would appear those who bring up referendums most are those who fear another one. That's certainly my experience anyway.

I don't foresee another one anytime soon. Those frothing over it need to chill. It may never happen. Then again it may.

This issue arose when I questioned you on your comment that we all knew an EU ref was on the cards. My argument was it depended on who we elected in 2015. It seems to have turned into a hoo-ha accusing some of us of being in denial or not paying attention. That was all. Just calling out an incorrect statement.

ruggedtoast

I find Cameron's support of Remain somewhat unconvincing considering how hard he is trying to support the xenophobes that now seem to make up a majority of his power base.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/12/eu-workers-deported-earning-less-35000-employees-americans-australians#comment-70430664

I would say Brexit is now 50/50. So once we have booted out those weird foreigners who live 20 miles away and are totaly unrelated to us, we can get shot of the Americans and Australians, and pretty much everyone else.

Its not reasonable to think the Scots will tolerate that without another referendum. I somewhat suspect they wont vote No again.

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I don't foresee another one anytime soon. Those frothing over it need to chill. It may never happen. Then again it may.

The SNP will 'demand' a new referendum once the polls tell them they can win (lets say 60% is a few months of consecutive polls).

There is no other criteria, unless there is a no-chance ' demand that they think will do some damage to the English or to the Tories.

kabayiri

If the Scots are entitled to another referendum, then shouldn't the Welsh; NI; and yes English also be asked if they want an independence referendum?

We are renowned for queueing, us Brits. The Scots can wait their turn

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Hamish, I moved on a long time ago. Still, I did have a giggle at your suggestion I should move on. A great many people ( yourself included ) still take an active interest in Scottish & UK politics. It's a good thing surely. Or should those who disagree with you just go back to sleep? Some would quite like that I'd imagine.

It would appear those who bring up referendums most are those who fear another one. That's certainly my experience anyway.

I don't foresee another one anytime soon. Those frothing over it need to chill. It may never happen. Then again it may.

This issue arose when I questioned Gen on his comment that we all knew an EU ref was on the cards. My argument was it depended on who we elected in 2015. It seems to have turned into a hoo-ha accusing some of us of being in denial or not paying attention. That was all. Just calling out an incorrect statement.

Perhaps you should take a little more water with it especially at this time of day.

As proud as I am that you feel that my analysis of Scottish politics is worthy of HAMISH I am not him.